Suzy Shinn: Soaking Up the Sun

You learned to record so you could upload songs to MySpace, and around the same time you first went to a Warped Tour. Was it surreal to sign with your management company, Crush Music, who were once synonymous with that era of music?

I moved out here without knowing I would move out here. I thought it was a summer internship at a recording studio, a little in-house factory place. [Songwriters] Sam “S*A*M” Hollander and Dave “Sluggo” Katz came through to produce a Blues Traveler album [Suzie Cracks the Whip], and Sam was friends with Jonathan Daniel over at Crush. We would be tracking, but we would stay and talk, and I was absorbing all these stories, info, and knowledge about bands I loved and admired – from Fall Out Boy to Boys Like Girls to Panic! At The Disco and Gym Class Heroes. That was really cool. Evan Taubenfeld was a producer, working with a Japanese rock band in the studio I worked at. I engineered for him then, and a year later he was working as a publisher at Crush. He said, “You’re really cool. What are you doing here, engineering in this weird little factory?” Eventually he signed me, and, in doing so, introduced me to Jake Sinclair, who was Butch Walker’s [Tape Op#138] engineer. Jake took me under his wing, and I got to work on all the records he was working on, either engineering or as an additional producer or writer. That whole team means the world to me. It’s so surreal. I’ll look back and realize, “Holy crap. Tom Morello posted my selfie on his Instagram yesterday. That’s not real.”

What did you pick up from engineering with Jake?

He’s an exceptional producer, songwriter, engineer, and mixer. He’s the whole package. But what I really love is wherever he goes, the drums are set up, but not in a live room far away. They’re right there; put on the headphones and they’re ready to go. The guitar is right there. The bass is right there. Just plug in. Wanna track a vocal? Go stand over there. We just have to dial it in. Everything’s all in the room, and it makes it easy to put records together, or the foundations of records. Music is a vibe, and it’s beautiful to work with what you have and what’s in front of you. He taught me that. He also showed me that it’sfun. When it feels like work, and something you hate, or you’re treating it as a job, you hear it in the song and in the tracks. But when you’re having a good time, it’s amazing and cool.

You’ve been doing some sessions in your home over the pandemic. What do you appreciate about non-traditional studios?

I got a good studio space about four months ago. But up until then, my living room was no longer a living room; it was a recording studio, which was fun. Sunlight, daylight – for that alone, I’d rather record in a giant living room than a soundproofed, nice recording studio. Even in my new studio, there were sound panels blocking the giant windows, and the first thing I did on day one was rip out the panels. We put up 3/4-inch plexiglass over [the windows], and it’s no issue; we get daylight. It’s a more casual, laid-back atmosphere, which takes the pressure off. Though there are also times I want [recording] to be intense – then I want to be at The Village, I want to be at United [Recording Studios]. But it gives us a feeling, wherever we are. I can record guitar anywhere. I can record vocals anywhere. If we want the huge, fancy, beautiful Capitol Studios [Tape Op#114] Studio A to record vocals, because that’s the feeling we’re going for, sure! But if they want to sit behind me on the couch and use a [Shure] SM7 [mic], that’s chill, too.

What’s the most exciting piece of equipment you’ve gotten to test out in some of those “intense” studios?

I’m sure everyone’s going to say this, but Frank Sinatra’s old Neumann [U 47] mic in Capitol was pretty cool. The reverb chambers there… plug-ins stand no chance. But every room I walk into, I’m always blown away in some manner, just because someone that I was or am obsessed with came in and made a crazy record that will stand the test of time. That’s really cool, whether you’re at Henson [Recording Studios] or someone’s house.

What about at home base? What are you gravitating towards?

There’s this Chase Bliss Automatone [preamp] pedal I just got. I go between that and my Mesa/Boogie Mark I [amp] going into the Universal Audio OX box. I’ve been getting some sick tones with that. Every session I have in the past month, I’m going between those.

You’re really into guitar pedals. Do you stay out of the computer as long as you can?

For guitar zone, I never really use plug-ins. It’s all pedals. I share the studio with Zac Carper, from the band FIDLAR, and his pedals, combined with my pedals, we have 100 pedals in a rolling cart I can push around the room. It’s fun, while we’re dialing a tone in, to throw in the pedals and see what works and let it be like that – rather than recording a crappy sound direct in and then adjusting the levels. The Tech 21 SansAmp Bass Driver V2 is a star for me. And the Chase Bliss MOOD [granular delay].

What about when you do use plug-ins?

UAD, Soundtoys, and FabFilter are my staples. Every session I have, those plug-ins are there. FabFilter’s [Pro-Q 3] EQ is just so sick. The oeksound soothe [dynamic resonance suppressor] I’ve been using a lot – isn’t it crazy? Valhalla has my go-to reverbs. [XLN Audio’s] Addictive Drums and Keys for programming are really good, especially the MPC sounds. [The Producer’s Choice] 808 Warfare – I know everyone thinks that’s not cool anymore, but it has 20 different 808 sounds I can go through. [Spectrasonics] Omnisphere [virtual synthesizer] and the TAL [U-No-LX] emulation of [Roland’s] Juno synth – you should get it; it’s really good! And they have a chorus I use a lot.

I wanted to talk to you about drum patterns, because that’s how you started production on Weezer’sVan Weezer. But I’ve also heard you say it’s not your favorite part of the process.

I’m eager to do more drum programming, specifically because it’s been a challenge to me – I hear hip-hop songs with amazing drum programming, and I get self-conscious. But now that I have drums in my studio, I gravitate towards that and figuring out patterns. It’s funny withVan Weezer,and Weezer in general, a lot of the drum programming is [vocalizes a standard rock beat]. So, a lot of the challenge with Weezer is aboutnotdoing that beat, and instead trying other patterns that stray from the go-to rock pattern. Ever since that, I’ve been keener on tuning into kick, snare, hi-hat. Think of “We Will Rock You”: Epic rock songs, no hi-hat until the chorus, no crash in the first chorus. Drums are so interesting to me because we can constantly build up the song to get bigger and bigger throughout it.

Do you remember the first producers you admired, before you were one yourself?

Yes. Greg Wells [Tape Op#123], Max Martin, and Rick Rubin – that whole world. I found Greg Wells’ website and email in 2009, and I kept emailing him like, “I’m Suzy! I love your work.” And he replied one time. I asked, “Hey, can I intern for you? Can I move out?” No response. Two years later, I saw he was working on Twenty One Pilots. I asked again, “Hey, can I intern for you?” No response. Because I wassoweird. And Rick Rubin, what a legend. His story, and the fact that he was obsessed with magic and wrestling… he’s so cool to me. He’s on my list of, “Oh my god, I want to meet him, pick apart his brain, and paint myself the color of the wall and stand along his wall.” Those guys all mean a lot to me.

I read that you love Jack Antonoff [Tape Op#135] and Butch Walker because it’s easy to hear their production thumbprint on a record. Which of their signatures are exciting to you?

Everyone has their style. With Jack, his melodies, chord changes, and even his synth sounds – I can just tell. The same with Butch, with the more guitar-driven, live feeling. But both of these guys produce emotionally-driven records. They have heart, each in their own specific way. That’s what I try, in my own way, to emulate. But I think I’m still developing my sound. My guitar tones and drums are becoming more and more clear and representative of me. Maybe it sounds kind of lo-fi and indie, but I want it to never sound “copy and pasted” together. I want it to sound like a record, a song, or what me, ten years ago, put on in her room and screamed along to. That’s what I want to do – capture a feeling.

For mix references, you dig into vintage sounds. Are there any that you’re excited by right now, or have rediscovered and started incorporating?

This is strange, and I’m probably late to the game, but I love Pavement [Tape Op#15]. I love the guitar tones, I love the space in the sounds, and I love the delivery in the vocal. Same with a lot of records that have the [Roland] Juno-60 or 106. The Beach Boys, and those kinds of vocal harmonies and tones – I don’t know if I’m emulating it, or doing the opposite of it. Sometimes I think, “This harmony doesn’tneeda double. I don’t need to stack all the random harmonies.”

Sometimes it’s just as useful to look at a track and know what you want to avoid in it.

Totally. And the songwriting of the ‘90s – and even the ‘50s! Take this arrangement we all know, ABABCB. For a second, I was getting really out there with my arrangements, where parts weren’t repeating or making sense. I thought, “Hold on. For 60 years, we’ve done verse chorus, verse chorus. It works, and it feels good. Why not that?”

It’s because you listened to too much Pavement! [laughter]

I listened to too much Pavement. It’s true!

How do your approaches differ when you’re working with an artist such as Fall Out Boy, versus working with indie bands or newer pop artists?

With a band that’s had crazy success and is on their fifth or tenth record, they know how it goes. When we get in the studio, they’re there to work. They’re not there to hang out for two hours, chill, get some drum sounds, and then jam. They’re very goal-oriented and have a vision. Whereas with an up-and-coming artist, like THE BLSSM or carolesdaughter, we have to communicate. I have to decipher, and translate, and understand, and be patient. They hear in their head what they want, but maybe can’t figure it out exactly as Rivers Cuomo [Weezer] could. So, being chill, and not pressuring them – maybe they’ve never worked with a producer before! That’s my time to be most creative, because they don’t have 10, 20 years of, “This is how you make a record.” I can get weird with it. It’s so exciting. Bands that have been around for a minute but not that long, it’s maybe a combination of the two. Experimenting with sounds – at that level, we can really dig in and dial in, so there’s more time to mess around.

Is there anything weirder and more experimental you’ve gotten to try with a newer artist that was fun?

Writing a song with a new artist is so cool, and working on arrangements, because it’s not normal. It’s not what you’re used to. I’m on their wave, helping them say what they wanna say or play what they wanna play. This one artist I love so much, Frances Forever, we were working on a song I’m obsessed with. They said, “I just know how to do stuff that makes me feel good.” I replied, “You’re a genius.” I’m obsessed with their music, and we go in the studio and try to experiment. We can take the time, because it’s all so new to everyone.

What do you bring to co-writes, or vocal production sessions, that’s different from your lead production?

I like to know my role. Lead production, I feel I’m asked to be there for my creativity, as well as direction and sound. I feel more comfortable being an equal part of the room. Vocal production, physically I’ll bring my vocal rig – a Wunder [Audio] CM7 [mic], Chandler TG2 [preamp], and a [Purple Audio] MC-77. The MC-77 has a bypass function, which is useful. I also have a UA 1176 [peak limiter], but I usually run through the MC-77. That’s what I’ll come with, unless we’re going to a dope studio that has everything we need. Mentally, my goal is to make them feel comfortable and get their vocals to sound amazing in their ears so they’ll sing even better. That’s it: Comfort. With engineering, come prepared. Everything is labeled. Organize. Be ten steps ahead of everyone in preparation. I go more into technical mode rather than creative, because in an engineering session, everything is riding on me. If something is fucked up, I’m going to get blamed. “Why is the mic like that? Why is it distorting? Why did you not keep that take?” That’s my role, so I go more into critical brain; technical mode.

You do spreadsheets of EQ charts! You have so much on your plate and so many projects. How do you structure your days and avoid burnout?

My days are chaotic. I try to keep my “me time” and meetings up until about noon. Sessions, I try to work from 1 to 7 or 8 p.m. – and I try not to do too many sessions a week if they’re writing or if I’m producing, because that’s what I think leads to burnout. Two weeks ago, I did nine sessions in a row with seven different artists, and I was producing all of it. By the end, I was completely burnt out. At the end I felt, “I have nine songs to finish. I need to sit by myself in a room, edit, finish, play on, and put it together.” And that, by myself, is so overwhelming. I’ll try to keep to three sessions a week. I’m still working on the songs the other two days, because I like to stay on top of it and not leave unfinished demos. That drives me nuts. Every day, I do feel I’m running around and there’s no total sense of what I’m doing until I get into an album mode. Because then it’s, “We’re making an album and I’m not doing anything else,” for however long. I love that.

You tweeted that you once engineered a 37-hour session and asked to be AMAed [ask me anything]. So, I’m asking!

Oh, my god; it was insane. That was 2013 or 2014. It was Nelly. I love Nelly. He was very, very nice to me. He was so kind to me as an engineer, and really respected me. Even when everyone else got kicked out of the studio, he said, “No, you’re cool. Do your thing.” People left a lot and came back, and it was alongseason. After 37 hours, I went home and slept, and he called me again to work. I had missed the call! But I did come back in. I had edited 40 takes. Marsha Ambrosious and Jermaine Dupri were on the song. I had edited everyone’s vocals, and it sounded amazing. That’s why I was sleeping! He goes, “What?! When did you do that?” I said, “I don’t even know.” I don’t think it ever came out, which was the worst part. It was crazy.

Who else have you worked with that folks don’t know about? Because Nelly is not on your discography.

I worked with SOPHIE [Xeon] a lot, and really closely, so [her death] was super sad. I met her when I was at Mad Decent, working with Diplo in 2015. She had just made “Lemonade” and we were working on “When I Rule the World” by LIZ. I’ve worked on so many songs that never came out… I worked with Future [Nayvadius Wilburn] a long, long time ago.

I saw Courtney Love is on your bucket list, but you did work onMiss Narcissist, right?

She’s so cool. Total legend. She’s a poet. She showed up to the session with massive books of poetry, and it was so beautiful. It’s crazy how she sees the world. I’d love to write and produce with her, because I only worked with her in an engineering capacity.

When I read about your first job working terrible studio hours, fetching coffee, and then waitressing a night shift at a strip club, it kind of reminded me of Courtney Love playing in bands while dancing at...

Jumbo’s [Clown Room]! Totally. It’s funny. When I was doing that, there was a voice in my head that was saying, “Courtney did this shit. I can do it too.” That strip club [I worked at] sucked. I hated it. But there were still good times.

You also have all these… is parody websites the right way to describe them? How do these projects influence your recording projects?

It’s easy to get stuck in a box with anything in life – keep your head down, do what you’re supposed to. It bummed me out, and it bummed out my friend Ani Acopian, who’s a director. She said, “I’m making all these commercials and music videos, and I’m not getting to do what I want to do in any way.” As awesome as my work is, I said, “Same. I feel I’m stuck.” She had this little joke mockup, “Amazon Dating” [satirical dating website]. I said, “We should make that real.” So, after sessions and working, we’d make this website. We built it ourselves with a couple friends. We’d stay up until 2 a.m., and it was really fun. Like music, it’s got feeling and comedy. Life felt so serious all the time. I thrive on comedy, laughing, and finding the humor in life. We went with that and it took off. ScrubHub.tv, [“The world’s leading free hand washing site”] – PornHub actually commissioned us to build that! We raised $50,000 for a food bank for L.A. And we made PostDates [“Get your stuff back from your ex”] because that was a dream idea we always wanted to build. We thought, “Okay, we can make parody websites, but can we make one that works? Can we take the surreality of this whole situation and cross a line where you can pay someone to get your stuff back?” We spent a month and a half building that. Instead of pure weekends, we’ll do this because it’s fun. It’s a way to get the creativeness out of our systems, and it makes us laugh. Now we’re working on a web3 reality dating show that’s making fun of dating shows. It’s calledProof of Love. That’s what we get to do in our spare time.

www.suzyshinn.com

Sadie Dupuis [Tape Op#142] is a songwriter, instrumentalist, and producer for her own projects, Speedy Ortiz & Sad13, as well as with artists including Lizzo, Backxwash, and Ben Lee. She’s also a poet and curates Wax Nine, a record label and poetry journal.