A studio manager juggles responsibilities and must also find the time and space for creativity. It takes a level head and a scopic vision to stay sane and to be brilliant. Knitting Factory Recording Studio manager Sascha Van Oertzen runs her Studio with an ease that only comes from mixing experience with creative vision. The history of the Knitting Factory's recording studio is almost as old as the history of the club itself. Many remember the Knitting Factory from its days on Houston St.; it is in this location that a robbery of the club in its early years nearly wiped out the club's existence for good. That was almost ten years ago, and since then the club has grown and moved to a more spacious location Downtown in Tribeca. The Knitting Factory remains a club with its feet firmly planted in jazz music and most things experimental, with four venues in the club, a festival production company, and a great record label that appropriately called Knitting Factory Records. Sascha Van Oertzen is a 29 year old woman who is a graduate of the famed Tonemeister Program of the University of Arts in Berlin. Sascha's daily grind includes doing live recordings of some Knitting Factory performances, and also recording albums for either Knitting Factory Records or Kramer's Shimmy Disc. Sascha is candid, honest, warm, and distinctly confident. She is a class-A troubleshooter, and thinks so hard about this it's like you can almost hear the cogs working as she thinks. As we speak I have to keep reminding myself that this is someone whose first language is not English- Sascha's vernacular and attitude is as "New York Downtown" as any other Knitting Factory regular. Before she decided to go to this school, Sascha was a musician who wanted to do something with music but didn't really want to be a musician. Wondering, "what else is there?" she found that recording and engineering was a program that offered many aspects towards engaging with music. Sascha described that in her program, "you had to play instruments and study music, while participating in various technical faculties of the University- you then get studio experience recording and get experience from practical work. The idea is that you learn music and have the same experience a musician has in order to work with them..."
So what instruments do you play?
Piano, sort of... everybody has to play piano in order to study ear training, theory, and composition studies. And then I play drums as another instrument.
I heard that you are a very, very good drummer...
You did! From whom?
Yeah, everybody from Frank London (Klezmatics) to...
They never heard me play really... [blushing!]
Well, they told me all about it! James Blood Ulmer (Odyssey Band) said so too. Who did you study with?
Well, his name is Jerry Granelli and he's from San Francisco, and he teaches a jazz faculty in Berlin. The school, in the beginning, was very classical oriented, which is where I started. It was very much about stereo techniques and the whole classical scene is a little more into the sounds that you get from a good room. As the jazz faculty developed and got stronger I was more into jazz. I just wanted to get into the studio and try out stuff recording. One day there was a big CD project workshop that was between the jazz faculty and the engineering faculty, and producer Lee Townsend was invited for that. That was a big kick, a huge inspiration and motivation for me to get into jazz.
What were some of the things that drew you in?
Well, first of all it's the music. The improvisation part, the creativity, and personal expression of the musicians; this whole process has always fascinated me. It's something more lively, less about reproducing and more about creating something new. Working with Lee Townsend and having him as the person in between the technical part and the musician was really exciting, because he knew both sides and he knew how to help communicate. For the engineers, to learn how to communi- cate with the musicians-and for the musicians, how to communicate more about the technical side. The whole process of multitrack recording is much more interesting to me than the stereo recording in classical, jazz and rock music. I mean now, even classical projects get more into multitrack recordings as well, but more of like a backup if they need to. But the process of mixing is really fun- it's where the creativity is, where the input is, and it's where the relationship between the musician and the engineer becomes really important. The musician wants to work with someone they can trust who is not just doing something. This is where Lee Townsend again was a huge influence...
Fill us all in on who Lee Townsend is...
Oh, he produces Bill Frisell, and he has done several John Scofield records. He also does a bunch of singer-songwriter stuff too. He also knows Jerry Granelli and David Freedman, who are great American jazz guys. What was really thrilling was learning about the process of recording, mixing and then putting the whole project together... it's really deep. It's not just putting the mic up and then you have a recording that you put out! It's really sitting down with a musician and trying to understand what they want, what their tone is, what they are going for and then helping them to create that. That's a pretty big part of the whole thing and that's what makes it really exciting and really fun. To be that close, to have that much input, ideas and creativity for the whole process.
I have to ask... Do you think that there are more or less female producers and engineers in Germany than here?
I was thinking actually that it is more rare in Germany... probably a bit more conservative over there. Maybe there is a quarter of the whole business that is female. Of course, just because you go to school, that doesn't mean everybody gets to work afterwards. I think in general, Germany is a little more conservative still. You need the papers, the references; you get less of a chance to go ahead and prove that you are good. They want more... I don't know the word..uh Umm...I don't know, like opinions ahead of time. It's different than here. At school, you have to make an entrance test and they know there are very few jobs out there so they limit the students that can be part of that program. There are only like 4 or 5 a semester. I mean, when I got interviewed for the position they were like, "Well, how do you think you are going to do this job if you are going to have a family?" And I was like, whoa!
Wow!
Yeah. Even worse was when they heard I wanted to study drums. They were like, "I don't think this is going to work. But, sometimes they just put that in there cuz they know it's hard, and if you don't have like a really strong will to do it, they just want you to question it. But I was like, 'What the hell? Fuck it, I want to do this. Is it really up to you to decide?'
Did that make you feel aggressively like you wanted to do it even more?
Maybe a little bit, sure.
What brought you here to the Knitting Factory? You've been here about a year now, right?
Yes, I came here by coincidence. I was visiting the city and they were looking for an engineer at the Knitting Factory. I never really had thought about it, I mean, I never really thought about moving to New York, but I knew the Knitting Factory and I knew musicians who played here. I dropped by and right away ran into Michael and Ed, had a quick interview and dropped off a resume and some CDs I had made. I got some recommendations from Lee Townsend and others... within a couple of months I had the job.
What's the routine like here in the studio?
The normal week almost doesn't exist, it is always different. There could be label projects, or people from the outside or shows... People from the outside, meaning either people who want to record something here, or want to have their show recorded here. That's great sometimes! Like we did this one track on Don Byron's new recording and those are thrilling experiences! At the Don Byron and Biz Markee show, I met producers and other engineers like Chris Whitley and Craig Street who are there to do it. There is a huge variety that comes through here; people's names that you read on records and then you finally get to meet those people and work with them!
What have been some of the most fun projects of the last year?
James Blood Ulmer was really really fun to work with...
James Blood is just great all around.
Yeah! His whole band is really great and the whole vibe was very, very celebration-like even! It was hard work too, but the whole session was really relaxed and exciting to record it..
How long did it take to record it?
One day. The recording session was one day, and the mixing was another day or two. That's how some people do it — Briggan Krauss was one of the most pleasant recording sessions I have ever done. Their vibe together was so good-they played together so well they just had so much fun themselves, and were never too hard on each other.
Do you find that there are big differences between recording jazz musicians and rock musicians ?
Well, no. There are plenty of jazz sessions that are not like that. And there are all kinds of ways to record, which is what I learned from experiences I had with Lee Townsend-you could work on one guitar solo, just play single notes and make that another great solo, that can happen too! But since we are a live set up anyway, we don't have that kind of overdubbing, headphone situation, the best sessions are kind of when people just play and don't get into a lot of fixing and overdubbing stuff in our setup.
If I may ask, what have been some of the worst experiences — like the frustrating parts?
There are some things that are related just to having any job! But, a couple of things happen with personalities-where there is a chauvinistic attitude. Not just me being a woman on the job, but maybe just the ignorance to how much work the engineering job is or how much I actually try to make something good. In the end it's in the service of the musicians. If something isn't right for them, they are like, "We want to make sure everything is cool to us" and their attitude is like, "I don't care if I fuck up your job or not!" I am like, "Well, ok, so do you want me to do this recording or not?" There are times when the cooperation isn't good, and there is not understanding going on. Then I get to feeling like, well, I will just do my job and not really work with the person.
That must be hard.
Yes! It can also be really hard if a musician is not happy with what they are doing, it can be really really hard, because they want to do it over and over and just like... hard vibes!
Everything tends to come out when you try to record it.
Absolutely.
What is some of the studio's gear that you have most fun with?
The Trident console! It's actually the one that Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon was recorded on...
Not like the actual one...
Yes! The actual one -you could ask Kramer about this. Trident ADB series, for people who want to know.
How many channels?
30 inputs — we have a 24 track analog machine, a Sony MCI. The two together have a warm sound which is really really good.
And that was all acquired back in February or January this year?
Yeah, we worked on integrating it all until April or May.
And before that it was done on...
A little Mackie mixer, which are totally fine but didn't have any character, like the mic pre's don't really have any. All we had before was the Mackie and two DA 88's and a little bit of outboard gear. The Trident console is the main difference. The 24 track is not as good for live recordings-it's just asking for too much trouble-but also we have this EMT reverb plate, which is really really cool and a bunch of tube vintage compressors...
Ahhh, which ones?
UREI LA 4 and 1176's and a Drawmer 1960... and a lot of ADR stereo compressors and some great reverbs like the EMT plate, the Lexicon 224 and PCN 90. The best sounding reverbs you can get nowadays. Also the Roland R 880. We also have a lot of great mics now, like some Neumanns and a few 87's and 84's AKG's, 414's and the new Blue Line Series, and the usual RE 20's, 421's, 57's, 58's...
Any other fun gadgets in there?
The studio isn't physically big enough to hold too much more. The most fun is the board, the console — the monitors, HD 1's, Meyer Sound. The studio is just the control room, with a little overdub booth. The tape- machine room can be used as an overdub room. All the spaces we record in.
Like upstairs in the main space?
Yeah, all the stages are wired to the studio, so we can use the main stage, the AlterKnit, or whatever
Ooooh, so they are wired there?
Um hm.
This place keeps you busy. What do you want to do in the future? Do you want to start your own studio or become a musician again, or..
Well,I really would like to go into the producing area, which I had done in Berlin before; just working with young bands and helping them put their projects out. That's really thrilling to see.
Would that be having your own studio to do the producing in?
I mean, I am in charge of this studio, and that's enough. I don't need to own it. I have always enjoyed doing live sound and that's what's cool here- I can do both. I can record live and do studio work. That's pretty ideal for me now. The set up is exactly what I want to do — a big variety of music, a lot of opportunities to meet people, to be involved in a label, and sort of do the live thing
It's cool how the whole package works together here...
Yeah.... Oh, I remember what I wanted to say earlier. I find more respect here in the States than I experienced in Germany. I feel more like other producers take me seriously, and give me the opportunity to just show what you are good at- not thinking, "You're a woman." Or "you are younger," or "you are not dressed the part" or...
Exactly.
I was touring with a band here in the States and I was a little worried. I was young, I am not too aggressive anyway, and they just let me... well they just sort of served it to you! Like, this is what you've got, this is how it works and it was just really cool. Which doesn't mean that all things over here in the States are like that.
New York is not an easy place to get started...
Yeah, I mean that was just one good experience....
