Doomtree: Minneapolis Hip-Hop

Doomtree is a hip-hop collective base in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The seven-member band and record label is known for its homegrown DIY ethos, wide range of musical influences, and lyrical complexity and wordplay. Their fanbase on a local level, as well as nationally, has grown organically since their founding in 2001, to the point where former Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak proclaimed a "Doomtree Day." Recently they released their third official full-group album All Hands, and I spoke with the primary producers, Lazerbeak (Aaron Mader), Cecil Otter (Kyle Smith), and Paper Tiger (John Samels). 

How did Doomtree get started?

Aaron: We've been at it for over a dozen years; basically a lot of us out of high school. We played in bands in junior high and high school, or grew up together, and as we all were really getting involved in hip-hop, we gravitated towards each other to play shows and make CDs. Essentially it was a million solo artists that joined forces to pool resources and over time, the seven of us have stuck it out. 

Is there a RZA of the group? Did one of you pull it together?

Aaron: It's changed over the years. Everyone has been a RZA in their own right. 

John: The weird thing for me is that a lot of us grew up playing in bands, or being into music, but we also have trouble being part of a group dynamic. A lot of us got interested in making hip-hop because it was something you could do by yourself. You could be at home and make a beat by yourself. It's interesting that we were still doing it as a group, because it's a very individualistic thing that we do together. 

Cecil: Like skateboarding. You skateboard by yourself; but then you get together with a group of people and you skate the same spot all day, and you get pushed to skate harder. 

Your music has changed, along with a lot of the hip-hop world, to incorporate electronica and EDM. Tell me about that.

A: We always set out to make rap music, but a lot of us came from different musical backgrounds. I was really into indie rock throughout junior high and high school, but I was into R&B when I was a little kid. I know a lot of Doomtree guys were into punk bands or metal. We're taking from all these elements, rather than being raised on East Coast rap, or only making boom bap, or whatever. That's my take on it. And we live in different music. A lot of us don't really listen to a lot of rap these days, so we're constantly influenced by different music. 

C: I agree. [We are more about] whatever sounds good to us at the time. I'm down to put anything in the song if it sounds good. I don't think it's about the style of music. I don't think there's ever a real plan. Let's roll with whatever sounds good on the keyboard. It depends on when the songs come in and out of the process. Some of the songs I did [on All Hands ] were more solo songs. They were last minute additions that people grabbed, listened to, and wrote vocals for. On our early recordings, we were working collaboratively; people picked up and added parts. Sometimes the sound can be attributed to the process . Throughout the 2000s, we were chopping up samples, drum loops, and things like that. It had a more organic quality to it because we were using old, acoustically recorded sounds that we were reappropriating. Now we're doing everything very synthetically, so it sounds newer. It sounds like a lot of what's happening now because the process was very synthetic. 

What are some of your go-to pieces of software and hardware?

C: Pro Tools.

J: Pro Tools and [Native Instruments] Maschine. I also have a few hardware synths that I love to use. Native Instruments and Pro Tools mostly are my go-to right now. I don't know [Apple] Logic at all. I know Ableton [Live] very little. I use it mostly for DJ tricks, like blends and mashups for mixtapes when I'm DJing out live. For writing and recording, it's Maschine and Pro Tools for me. 

A: Cecil does every single thing in Pro Tools. Up until a year and a half ago, I made everything in an [Akai] MPC2000XL, so to watch Cecil be able to do all that within Pro Tools from the start has blown my mind. We started a lot of these beats for the new album together a couple years back, and getting to know Cecil's engineering process has been interesting. Because I still gotta tap pads. I picked up an MPC Renaissance, which I think is their attempt at Maschine basically, so I'm slowly learning MIDI for the first time. I feel like I'm finally stepping into the real world of technology. 

Although limitations can sometimes be helpful, right? A lot of people feel that if you limit yourself, you're forced to have more creative ideas.

C: Yeah.

A: A lot of the early beats we made for this project, we made when me and Cecil were just stockpiling gear in his cabin. We bought a friend's [Dave Smith Instruments] Prophet keyboard, and for some reason it was a lot easier to riff on ideas with that than it was to pull up synths in different software programs. I think we started with the Prophet on a handful of these beats that actually made the record. 

What are the top plug-ins for you?

C: Soundtoys is killing it right now.

A: Cecil, what's that one I always ask you to put on? The tape machine one.

C: [Waves] Kramer Master Tape emulator. That shit kills it. 

A: We would mic up an acoustic guitar and use that, and it would sound like a sample. To my ear it sounds better, even if it sounds worse.

J: I'm doing a lot of tweaking in [Native Instruments] Massive, plus I'm also buying sounds and tweaking them. Some of it is hardware too; I've been using the [Korg] MS-20 mini and running a Moog through effects processors. It's really hard to replicate, so I have to record everything I do. 

A: And a quick shoutout to our session player, Jake Hanson. He's a guitar player we brought in. He had 40 pedals and we said, "Do whatever you want. Don't make it sound like a guitar even." He did takes on every track and we chopped it like a sample. It's the glue; the atmospheric tracks he did is an under layer on all these songs. 

So part of what you're known for is that you're hometown heroes in Minneapolis. You are a local collective that does everything themselves and records on their own. But if the opportunity arose, would you want to work in a major studio in New York or L. A. with top producers, or would you prefer to keep all things Doomtree strictly Doomtree?

C: I wouldn't mind being a top producer for a while. [laughs] That sounds fun! 

J: We've been doing this so long now on our own that I don't know what would be gained by having someone else come in and say what their version of what we're doing would sound like. There's stuff that we don't even talk about verbally that we just intrinsically understand because we've been working so long together — it might be weird to bring in a new voice and have us agree on that one voice. We're already seven very different people. As far as sound goes, we work in a really nice recording studio in Minneapolis. I don't think we're losing anything by not working in one of the more popular top studios. 

Wanna plug that Minneapolis studio?

J: Sure! It's called The Hideaway Studio. We work with Joe Mabbott. 

C: Yeah, he's been with us for over ten years now; he's been our guy. He really helps reign us in. Some of these songs and beats have over 100 tracks, especially when you have three producers adding stems. That's before you even get into the vocals. So he's an amazing organizer, making it take form.

 J: I don't envy his job working with us at all. We lay a lot on him. 

A: You gotta imagine that you have seven artists. We're butting heads and we're trying to figure out how to bring him the mix notes, once we get into the mixing rounds. In the same song I'll be like, "Turn up the bass." Somebody else's notes say, "Turn down the bass." Trying to find out what the hell we're talking about is a big part of his job. [laughs] 

So I saw the Doomtree-created Spotify playlist of "Best Tracks of 2014," and there were only a couple of rap songs represented out of two-dozen tunes. I wonder if you guys want to get into anything other than hip-hop? What are you excited about in hip-hop? What are you dismayed by in hip-hop? What other music excites you?

A: Totally. I think anything you do for so long, you're going to need some change. I really listen to R&B, at this point; old school, as well as some of the newer stuff. I'll put Drake into that R&B category. Thinking outside the box. It's really important to me to work on different things. When you do that and then you come back to hip-hop refreshed, you can pull from that. That being said, there's still some really cool records, like Run the Jewels. I used to be the guy who would read XXL Magazine , go on the message boards, and learn about every rapper in the world. I think I've burned out on that. 

C: I agree with Beak. I don't really have time to listen to other music. We're producing a lot. I'm producing a lot for indie bands too. By the time I get to listen to music, I just put on a classical station to shut it off for a bit. I still do like hip-hop, and there are still people I look for; but I feel caught where I was ten years ago. I want to listen to Buck 65 and Sage Francis. I still feel like there are some MCs who are trying really hard to craft lyrics and stories, but I don't get a lot of that in newer radio hip-hop. I like the beats a lot, but there's not a lot of content so I move back. Songs that are ten years old still grab me. Other than that, I like listening to folk music. You'll catch me listening to Mountain Man more than rap music. 

J: I'm still figuring it all out. I'm making a lot of tracks that could, or could not, be considered hip-hop. It's under the umbrella of hip-hop or rap. 

You mention Top 40 or radio hip-hop having great beats, but that you're not into the lyrics and I find myself thinking the same. In the style that's popular right now, the beats call for very simplistic vocals and I wonder if there's any way around that. 2 Chainz is perfect for the beats he's on, and you want to listen to the song because you like the beat and the cadence. But is there a place for somebody with dense lyrical flow in today's sound?

C: I don't know. I don't think the majority of people want it. 

A: I think there's still a place for it, but unfortunately you're not really rewarded right now for being a dense lyricist. There's not a lot of payoff in the mainstream realm; like you're not going to get a Nike contract by getting deep and metaphorical. I think it's set up right now so when people are in the club, they're not trying to listen to something they have to think about. If someone did it — and there are people doing it — it wouldn't be popular music, because the simplicity is driving the popularity. 

J: I was just having a conversation about this the other day. There isn't really an underground hip-hop backpacker mentality anymore in this art form. Obviously there's still rap music being made, but the way I listen to it or consume it — and I'm also a club DJ — I just consider it club music. I don't talk about it as being hip-hop or part of that culture. Club hip-hop is basically on the same level as what Mad Decent or Fool's Gold [Records] is doing; it's party jams, party vibes, being loud in the club, and sounding really good in the club. But it's not really something you're going to put on in your living room. It's made for a different entry point or process. As far as "real hip-hop," I haven't heard that kind of thing for a while.

Zac Meyer is a producer/mixer in Brooklyn, NY and plays in The Dust Engineers.

zacmeyer. net