How long is the Kylie Minogue tour?
It's about eight months total. We've done five shows now, so I guess it's been going nearly two weeks. We came to Melbourne three weeks prior to that to get into the rehearsal process.
"Can't Get You Out of My Head" is such a jam.
One of my teenhood jams, that one. Iconic video.
Can you tell me about your rig for this tour?
On the bottom is a Native Instruments S88 – a full-sized, 88-key MIDI controller – which is going into [Apple] MainStage. That's doing an array of sounds, from piano and Rhodes, to strings and samples. On top, I've got a UDO Super 6 polyphonic analog hybrid synthesizer, which is going through an Eventide H90 and a [Boss] Space Echo, the RE202.
I'm glad the Super 6 came up. I first heard your name because I own a Super 6 and I use your patches all the time. Can you tell me about getting involved in patch design?
It happened organically. UDO's workshop was very close to where I lived in Bristol. I don't remember who approached who, but it's likely that Adrian Utley from Portishead introduced us. Constructing a sound from nothing is something I've been drawn to for a long time. It's ingrained in both my studio and live work. But word's gotten around since my work with UDO, and I've had the pleasure of working with companies like Soniccouture as well.
What's your design process when a synth builder requests patches?
I can't deny the satisfaction of creating prescribed sounds – [Roland] Juno pads, Theremins, Moog bass – which often occurs in my live touring work. But I'm lucky enough with the builders to also be given free rein to follow a creative thread. Someone might come to me for patches that represent a performer's visceral exploration of the instrument. My approach varies vastly depending on whether I'm aiming for lead or percussive sounds, ever-shifting pad sounds, or sounds with rhythmic patterns. But I always try to create personality in a sound, no matter how complex or simple. I still want an almost human feel. So, I use modulation – LFOs, envelopes, etc. – but also articulation aspects like aftertouch, mod wheels, and expression pedals. Some combinations can create unpredictable movement or responses, like filter or waveform modulation with LFOs, or looped envelopes of varying times and shapes. Some synths want simplicity and absolutely sing with just a single sawtooth and very subtle modulation. It's a conversation with the instrument, so listening before responding is a big part of it. Also, it's knowing when to capture something before you've moved on and lost a sound forever.
Your patches sound like they were made by a composer with a particular need. Maybe I'm projecting, but each patch feels designed to be a single element in an arrangement, rather than an arrangement in and of itself.
One of the things people say they appreciate about what I do is that when I build sounds, I'm not necessarily thinking like a true techie. I'm thinking as a creative artist, and I’m considering how I want to express a feeling. Even when I'm exploring something like the Super 6, where it can go very deep, I don't want to overcrowd. The same applies for found sound. Before I was interested in synthesizers, I was, and still am, hugely into musique concrète – lots of samples and manipulation. Synthesizers became incorporated within that framework.
That approach is audible on your EP [The Embrace]. There are tons of sounds – "whirling water, clinking metal, knocking wood, and characterful analog synths," by your own description – but every one of them is a singular voice.
Arranging those songs was about having everything be there for a purpose and trying not to overcomplicate. Simplicity can be refreshing. It might be a kind of rebellion against my original background, which is classical. At one point I didn't like the idea that somebody might see me play the piano and it wouldn't come across as virtuosic. I had to really give myself a talking to. "It's not about virtuosity. It's about the music."
How do you break that habit?
The producer I was working with, TJ Allen, gave me a bit of an assignment: "Write a pop song where you are only playing two notes at a time." You just get your two index fingers to play the whole song.
That's a great assignment.
It did the trick!
Can we talk about the last song on the EP, "Fragile Creature"? It's sonically unique in the collection, and the backing vocals are astonishing.
I wrote "Fragile Creature" at a different time to the other songs, which makes sense as to why it stands out. It started with a sample of a dial-up modem, which I pitched down, looped, and then let it roll. I wrote the song over top of that. The demo consisted of piano and vocals. The synths replaced this Mellotron-y string part. And pretty much all the backing vocal parts that you hear in the finished version are as they were in the demo.
The backing vocals transform this intimate ballad into something theatrical, almost liturgical.
Thank you! I described to Tim [TJ Allen] how I wanted it to feel sonically, in relation to the meaning of song. I don't know if there was a great deal of discussion, it was really just more of an understanding. We did decide beforehand to go into the studio and not tinker with the demo at all. It was what it was, and it had been sitting for a couple of years. Aside from a few overdubs, we pretty much did it in one day.
Where did you record?
This was at J&J Studio Bristol. Tim has a room attached to that studio, so it was mostly in his space. The process was very organic. We put the piano and the guide vocal down first, then we started exploring the concrète side of it, the textural feel. We replaced that sampled modem with some vocal samples that we manipulated with the Make Noise Morphagene. You can fragment and reverse bits – there was an element of jamming and then finding little snippets and placing them where we felt they sat, which is generally how I work at home with things like that. I capture a load of sound, whether it's messing around with samples or synths. If there's a bit where I think, "Oh, that's doing something," then I'll zoom in on that.
Did you make the rest of The Embrace at J&J?
Bits of it. Mostly at home.
Can you describe your basic chain for recording synths?
If I'm not going through any pedals or effects, the synth goes line-in straight into my Universal Audio Apollo rack. I like to keep it set up simply at home so that I can focus on the creative side and just capture it. In the studio with TJ Allen, the synths were occasionally recorded through either the Heritage Audio 73 JR 500 Series [Neve] 1073 clones or a Focusrite ISA pre.
Could you feel more muscle on the synth through the preamps?
It's hard to tell because the space was different, so it sounded different anyway. Some synths do benefit from being run through preamps, particularly some digital synths. But it was mostly analogs on the EP.
Pedals?
I often have either a synth set up going through some pedals, or some pedals set up as an aux. Recently I was playing around with the Vongon polyphrase, which is a delay, but it can kind of be a looper as well. There's a reverb by the same company, the ultrasheer. That pairing is beautiful. They're both stereo, and part of the magic of the polyphrase is the stereo movement.
Do you ever feel hemmed in by having to find stereo effects for synthesizers?
No, I like being hemmed in. I don't want too much in the way of options. If there were too many options, I think I would get overwhelmed.
Which brings us to your DAW situation.
Three different DAWS serve different parts of the process for me. I tend to start in Ableton Live, because if I'm in the creative, early stages where I'm generating ideas, I don't want to be restricted to a linear thing. That's one of the areas where Ableton really shines. To go from one scene to another mid-scene can change a chord progression and harmonic rhythm completely. I never would've made certain decisions otherwise. I love it for that reason.
What about mixing?
I always end up in Pro Tools. That's where I finish to get songs mix ready. I have also recently gone back into [Apple] Logic for its step sequencer, which is a bit of a game changer for me when it comes to beat writing, in particular. I've ended up coming up with rhythms and feels that I wouldn't have done otherwise.
Are you sending MIDI sequences out to hardware in the room, or are you using soft synths?
I hook up an external synth. Recently I did it with the [Sequential] Prophet-6. I hooked it up with MIDI and just randomly added steps into the Logic step sequencer: I changed notes, changed the octaves randomly, and got probability involved. It's amazing. What came out was, again, something I never would've played.
Maybe impossible to play?
Exactly. But even if it's a really simple bassline, I play it in so I can capture it with MIDI. Then I send that out to the instrument. That way I can manipulate the sound with two hands when I record the audio, and I can make it a performance. Like swelling up the filter into a chorus or changing the decay time of the envelope, responding in the moment to make it a bit more musical and have it flow as the structure of the song unfolds. That's something I do a lot.
You mentioned beats.
I've got a sizable library of the samples I've collected over the years. Some are sampled from analog synths, like the [Korg] MS-20 or [Roland] SH-101. There are also synth modules like the Make Noise DPO, or Mutable Instruments' Elements and other stuff in the digital realm. Plus there’re found sounds turned into hits, pitched or textural sounds such as oven shelves, wooden objects, drawer slams, taps, and scrapes. Sometimes, I randomly pull a load of those into Logic's Drum Machine Designer. I just chuck in the samples. I can do it with regular MIDI view, but if I use step sequence mode it gets really interesting.
When you record at home, do you mix it to completion yourself or do you bring stems to people?
I bring stems to someone to mix; but I try and get it as mixed as I can, and as close to how I want it to sound as possible, first. My go-to in-the-box plug-ins are the UAD Distressor, [FabFilter] Pro-Q 3, the Valhalla Delay and reverbs, and the UAD Lexicon 224.
So, when you give it to the mixer, they can put everything at zero and hear what you're hearing?
That's the aim. Because for me it isn't just songs; a huge part of my writing process is the way that it sounds. I definitely want it to come across sonically in the way I'm intending before I pass it to somebody else. If I don't feel like I've done absolute justice to that, for whatever reason, then I'll describe it to them as best I can as to how I want it to feel.
Is gear the starting point when you compose?
It might be dictated by the exploration of a particular gear setup, where I sit down to learn a certain sequencer or synth or whatever. That will always result in me writing something. But it might be more traditional, sitting at a piano or singing into my phone. Or it could be that I'm out and about and I've heard something, or I’ve sampled something that starts giving me ideas to explore. "Enclosure" on the EP came about as an exploration of musique concrète and probability. The percussive sample at the beginning is a plucked hair band. I captured it and re-pitched it.
This may sound ridiculous, but it's Tape Op: Do you remember what you used to mic the hair band?
A [Shure] SM7. It's not the most ideal mic for sampling small things, but it sounds great and it’s what I had on hand at the time. I helped it along a bit by EQ'ing it, enhancing the parts of it that I wanted. I never sample a sound and say, "There we go. That's the sound I'm going to use." I try and transform it a little bit so that it's slightly less recognizable as what it was originally. It's about wanting to be transported somewhere else, somewhere otherworldly.
Do you mangle your samples in the box?
I have an [Akai] MPC Live II, which I use a lot for samples. That's quite good for manipulating sounds. I've had lots of fun applying varying modulation, panning, and effects to different sounds within a kit to give depth to a beat. I have also used an [Elektron] Digitakt for this. That's a beautiful thing. But obviously that was only mono samples in the first one. I haven't tried out the new stereo one [the Digitakt II]. I would like to. Sometimes, I've just got my laptop on me, so I'll use that; often Ableton Live's Drum Rack and plug-ins like [oeksound's] spiff.
With so many distinct pieces of gear being so essential to your composition process and sound, do you ever worry about re-creating it live?
I haven't performed my own songs live for a few years now. But when I do, I like to make it something new rather than try to replicate a recording. I'd rather take the essence of what is there and turn it into a live experience in the room at the time, in the moment.
I love that approach.
I did start drawing up a live rig that consisted of a synth, maybe two, a couple of pedals, and an MPC. In an ideal world, that would be expanded to include a drummer who plays a lot of trigger pads as well, but who also gets the feel. Someone like Alex Thomas, who's on the EP. I'll need someone who plays guitar or bass and can sing as well, because harmonies are another big part of what I do, as you mentioned with "Fragile Creature." I don't think I could do a live show without backing vocals. I used to use an Electrix Repeater to build up looped harmonies.
Did you train as a singer as well?
Yes. Not in the same way as piano, but I did. I sang in choirs when I was younger, and I took classical voice lessons as a teenager. But I would say I'm more of a self-taught vocalist in the field I'm in now.
Your vocals have a soft weight to them on the EP. Do you recall what you were singing through in the studio?
"Fragile Creature" was a Pearlman TM-1. It's a lovely tube condenser, but mine needs a little TLC. I've been trying some replacement tubes, so it's getting a little bit of love at the moment. Also, a Sontronics Aria and probably the SM7 for some backing vocals. We went through one of the Heritage preamps and into an [Empirical Labs] Distressor in Opto mode via an API 550A EQ. I also have a beloved Tall Bird spring reverb unit by the lovely chaps at Benson Amps that I think we used for "Fragile Creature" in particular. It certainly works well on the slower, less rhythmic vocals because of its long tail. She a beaut.
Are you recording new music lately?
I am in the finishing stages of a collaboration with an artist called Cate Brooks, who's released a lot of instrumental music on Ghost Box Records. We discovered each other online in lockdown, and we started writing together remotely. She found a YouTube video that I'd done, a cover of "Ghosts" by Japan. It was one of those lockdown split-screen jobs with me at my house, and marimba player Harriet Riley at hers.
I've watched that. It's terrific.
Thank you. Cate and I got to talking and we ended up sending ideas back and forth. It's now become a record that is nearly finished. There are a lot of synths on it. It's all very soft and ASMR-y because it was lockdown and we were all feeling delicate at the time, plus I didn't want to disturb the neighbors by singing loudly. I am also working on the next bunch of solo stuff, which is a little bit more up. Maybe even something you could dance to, if you wanted! It's still very much an extension of the EP, but more extravert at times, let's say.
It must have been encouraging that Cate contacted you on the strength of a YouTube cover. How much has your YouTube channel become part of your career?
Very little, actually. I think because most of the videos I make are for other people, and that's another job. It's growing a little, and I'm trying to release more of the off-the-cuff jams and things that people seem to enjoy, but I don't want it to be too calculated.
What separates you from a lot of the YouTube synth community is your virtuosity as an instrumentalist. It's easy to see why people would be excited to see what you're doing, even in jams.
People do tell me they just want to see me play. The thing is, it takes people like Hainbach so much of their time and effort to make their videos. They really put themselves and their passion into it. It's hard to just do something occasionally and still come across as well as they do. I feel like if I started putting all my effort into that side of things, I'd be forgetting about the thing that I'm filming about in the first place. It's a difficult balance. I have to remind myself, "No, no. It's about the music. It's not about making a video for YouTube." Even though people do enjoy them, and I appreciate that, what really makes me happy is making music.
Eight months is a long tour. How do you work on your own stuff on the road?
The ultimate question. I'm still discovering that for myself. There are various little portable things I can take with me to help, mostly in the box. I always have a MIDI keyboard. But I like to have some piece of equipment that can give me some inspiration. I like to get out of my head and away from the screen.
I strongly recommend the Elektron Digitone.
I have been looking into it, and you saying that may have confirmed it for me. I've traveled with the Arturia MicroFreak and a [Teenage Engineering] OP-1. My fave soft synths for working in the box are the Softube Roland models, Soniccouture Attic, the Arturia V Collection, and the Slate + Ash Choreographs. Before iPhone mics got so good I used to bring a stereo Zoom recorder with me everywhere for found sound, recording things like crickets, birds, doors, gates, the sea, elevators, trains, caves, etc.
Have you considered releasing your strictly sample-based musique concrète work?
I’m looking into releasing more of the instrumental explorations. Watch this space!
You released and promoted The Embrace yourself, correct?
I did. It takes a lot of work, and a lot of research. There's work in figuring out what the hell to do and how to do it, and then the act of it is very time consuming. I found it a really interesting challenge and I was grateful for the time to do it, because I had a little bit of a gap between tours. I don't know if I could really offer any pearl of wisdom, but it goes a long way if you really connect with who you are getting in touch with. You've just got to remember that you are contacting human beings. You are a human being talking to another human being. People can get really bogged down in copy and paste, and finding a massive, long list of people to send generic emails to. Connect with people whose work you actually enjoy. If nothing comes from it, it's not a big deal. I wanted to put that extra time in because I wanted to make it more meaningful. And it felt ethically sound at the same time. I didn't feel like I was just bothering people.
You're talking about contacting press?
Press, and radio as well. Radio is a whole other thing. It may be something I wouldn't try and do myself again because it's much more difficult.
Sometimes it feels impossible to get people to listen.
I always start with people I know. I'm lucky enough to have some generous fellow musicians and friends who work in the industry who will lend an ear. I think that's a good place to start, if you feel brave enough to get someone to listen to it, someone you trust to give an honest opinion. Just remember that not everyone's opinion is going to be the same. Sometimes that can help you hone where you're going to target, if you really want to open it up and get honest.
If I were going to compare your songwriting work to anyone, the first artist I would say is Kate Bush. But the way the songs are arranged and the way the percussion works, I immediately thought about Laurie Anderson too, especially the Mister Heartbreak album.
When I was first introduced to the concept of musique concrète at the University of Birmingham, we started looking at people like Steve Reich [Tape Op #15] and the John Cage circle, and Laurie Anderson came up in amongst that. That’s who lit the fire for me.
I love that she came up in the same breath with those composers, because she falls in this unsanctioned space between classical composer, performance artist, and pop musician. It gave me such a sense of freedom when I first heard her records.
It's true. "Hang on! I can write music like that?" Those are the musicians who give you permission.
Who else makes you feel that way?
This is a bit of a weird one because I wouldn't say I'm influenced by them stylistically, but one of my favorite bands ever is Grizzly Bear, for how sonically otherworldly and structurally unpredictable their music is. More recently, I've found James Holden's 2023 album, Imagine This Is a High Dimensional Space of All Possibilities, to be utterly liberating, both in its composition and listening experience. For me, finding something in more popular music that pushes boundaries, that's where I start to see how I can meld all the elements of my musical life. I grew up loving pop music, like Michael Jackson and Annie Lennox. Once I discovered experimentalism and minimalism, I loved that too. But they were always quite separate. This whole time I feel like I've been learning how to bring them together. 
