Pete Weiss | TapeOp

On a blustery Boston day, Robert Fisher and Pete Weiss sat down in Robert's living room for this conversation. Pete Weiss is one of the principle owners of Zippah Studios, a music-only studio in the Boston area that specializes in comfortable surroundings, vintage gear and great results. A favorite of many bands, who return from project to project, the studio has a musician-friendly reputation. The collaborative, problem-solving nature of Zippah's small staff of engineers and producers makes it a perfect place for recording of all kinds. At this point, the studio offers recording in 24-track and 16-track analog with a flexible recording space large enough to accommodate most recording projects shy of an orchestra. (Although if you talk to Pete he might figure out a way to do that too!)

Robert Fisher is one half of the songwriting team behind the Willard Grant Conspiracy (Rykodisc/Slow River) along with Paul Austin. WGC recorded [their last] three albums at Zippah including the most recent, Everything's Fine. Pete and Robert have not only co-produced the WGC material but also extended their co-production efforts into working with other bands.

So you started Zippah Studio when?

Um, 1989.

Did you have a partner?

I started it by myself, but soon realized I'd need someone to share the rent with. Keep in mind, at this point, Zippah was basically more like a little rehearsal room than a recording studio. It was just this small room, probably 12' by 12', and we slapped a wall up in the middle so we had a 6x12 "control closet" and a 6x12 "live closet." If you wanted to record drums, there was really only enough room for a small drum kit and maybe a bass player going direct. It was just ridiculously tiny. I think the rent was, like, 300 bucks a month — not a bargain at the time. The place was less of a studio and more of a "place to keep my gear." Anyway, this guy named Mark Wlodarkiewicz, with whom I'd gone to college but didn't know all that well, stepped into the picture and became my partner. He had a lot of gear, mostly MIDI stuff, sequencers, keyboards, and a couple of Macintosh SEs. Mark has since moved to the West Coast and last I heard he was working with Calexico and doing a lot of sound design for major films.

It's surprising that you had a big MIDI setup at the early Zippah, considering how "vintage"-oriented the studio is now. Did you always have the vintage gear setup as a goal, or did you just kind of happen into it?

That's a good question. Keep in mind that in the late '80s there wasn't much emphasis on the "coolness" of vintage gear.

Right. It was the opposite, actually.

Yeah, and at the time I was lucky enough to buy some really nice things early on before the prices got ridiculous. I remember there was almost a patronizing attitude toward the older equipment. Sort of like, "Oh, that compressor has a charming sound to it, but of course it's old," and, "... yeah, can you believe that thing uses tubes?!"

The eighties seemed to be the time when Japanese studio owners started coming here and snapping up all the old tube stuff. They knew, but we hadn't figured it out yet.

Right. So, from the beginning, I think my attitude was not necessarily "old school/vintage gear" but more like "I like recording people playing instruments. I like it when people make music from themselves." I understood what MIDI could do and definitely liked some music that was made with sequencers and computers, but my personal musical tastes ran towards predominantly performed music. I figured, too, that it wouldn't hurt for me to focus on a certain style of recording and over the years, this "performance-based" niche sort of naturally lent itself to the whole vintage/analog/tube/whatever- you-want-to-call-it aesthetic.

So, when Mark left, did you replace him?

Ken Thomas basically took Mark's place when Mark moved to the West Coast around '92. There had been an overlap era when the three of us were sharing the expenses. Brian Charles was a freelance engineer and brought a few bands into Zippah around this time. Eventually, Ken and I asked Brian if he wanted to buy into Zippah. I should say that, by this time, we had moved from the "closet" space to a much larger part of the same building — we could actually record full bands and started to develop a reputation around town for getting good sounds cheap. Anyway, Ken eventually bowed out, selling his share to Brian. That brings us up to date — which is the Zippah ownership chronology in a nutshell.

How did Zippah grow to the size it is now?

The first few years, when we all had day jobs, we were very careful to dump any studio-related income back into the studio. If you do that for a few years you can amass a pretty nice pile of gear. Around '93 we moved all the gear into a larger space and started recording better and better bands.

As a producer, do you have a philosophy that guides you with the kind of work you do?

Something I've been trying to do for the past few years is to really get to know the artist. Get a really clear idea of what they want. Some artists want a producer's personal taste stamped onto a recording and others have a definite sense of what their record should sound like. Strangely, one of the toughest things is trying to get a sense of which way an artist wants their relationship to a producer to be. They may say one thing and mean another.

Sometimes they don't know.

Right. Getting to know them as a person and artist kind of helps you at least get a better idea.

Zippah seems like — because of the way you guys put it together — that it's kind of better suited to more organic music.

When we did our major re-design/renovation about five years ago, the three of us sat down and tried to figure out how best to use the space. We found we had just enough space for a typical four- or five-piece band to set up — fairly comfortably — in the same room. And we still had space for a decent control room with a big console, multitracks, and a fairly big rack of gear. What we felt we did not have room for were computer monitors, keyboards, that kind of thing. So we figured, well, we've got a good rep for recording rock-oriented stuff, let's make this a cool, mostly- analog, vintage-type place.

We should talk about the equipment at Zippah. It's definitely part of the character of the sounds that come out of there. Would you say the Neve is the central article of enchantment?

Oh, sure. When it comes to equipment, people keep returning to Zippah for two reasons: the Neve console and the Neumann U47. The Neve is a gem. We were so lucky to get it when we got it.

How'd that happen?

Not that it was cheap, but it wasn't crazy money like they tend to be now. Since the early days of Zippah we had a very serviceable, but not very exotic, Tascam board. I actually forget the model number. But we recorded tons of indie rock albums on the Tascam with no complaints. It had sort of a harsh upper end, but, actually, I always kind of liked the bottom end of it. Anyway, we tracked with a variety of outboard preamps, including a few Neves, and mixed through the Tascam with fine results. But we became frustrated with the Tascam's limitations and started talking about getting, say, an Allen & Heath or something in that range. It would have been kind of the next logical step up in consoles. But, as we were shopping around for a new board, we eventually realized that we wanted something a bit more "pro." We — thank God — decided to stick with the Tascam for another year or two — like I said, it was certainly a good enough board to make cool indie records with — and squirrel away all the studio income in hopes of getting a Neve. And about two years later, we found a great Neve broadcast board from the mid-1970s through a broker. It had been at the BBC — they had used it for television broadcasts. We don't know specifically what the BBC used it for but, hey, given the time frame, it could very well be the Benny Hill or Monty Python board. [laughs] It's a 36-channel desk with 8 busses and 4 sends — just enough bells and whistles to do your normal routing tasks — and with that thick Neve sound. The modules are the 33114s and it has two 2254A compressors built in.

Did you have to do any modifications to it?

Yes, a few routing- and monitoring-related things had to be done. It was a bit scary buying it because we had to trust the broker in his description of the board. We couldn't afford to fly over to London and check it out. But we were aware of the BBC's spotless engineering and maintenance reputation, so that put us at ease a bit. One last- minute panic occurred when the console was actually in transit to Boston — we thought, "Oh my God, this board was used for TV sound in the 1970s ... what if it's a MONO board?!" It was one of those issues that never occurred to us to ask about. Luckily, the board was stereo. Upside down pan pots and everything — instead of "center" being 12 o'clock on the pot, it's 6 o'clock. It took some getting used to, but it's very British...

The sound of the Neve is certainly one of the main reasons we keep recording at Zippah. It's got such a musical, kind of, creamy tone. What other pieces of gear at Zippah are your favorites?

The U47 is a fine, fine, fine vocal mic. Some of them can be dark, but ours is a bright one. Another mic I like to use is the RCA 44 ribbon. That's a dark but beautiful-sounding mic. Certain female vocals, especially in upper registers, can be difficult to record because many vocal mics emphasize frequencies that can be piercing. The 44 can round off these vocals without making them sound muddy. One of the guys in the band Pie found the 44 in his grandfather's attic and traded it for studio time.

Bartering can be a win-win situation.

Sure. They didn't have any use for the mic and they needed to record a CD.

Do you use the 44 for stuff other than vocals?

Yeah, I've had some good experiences using it as a drum room mic — it doesn't emphasize the cymbals so much. Also, it's got a ridiculous proximity effect, so it can be great for mic'ing a bass cabinet. Oh, also, upright bass. It was just the thing for the western swing band The Spurs' upright bassist.

Talk about some more gear.

There's the EMI strip. It's two channels from a late-'60s EMI console that had been in Abbey Road. We traded our old Neve modules and some cash for it. This guy in California had bought the whole 16- or 20- channel board from EMI in the early 1980s in what was billed the "Sale of the Century." He sat on it for a while and decided to part it out into two-channel modules and sell them separately. It's kind of a shame he didn't keep the whole thing assembled. I've seen pictures — it was a beautiful board. I understand Jack Joseph Puig has a handful of these modules. Anyway, it's a very cool thing — great mic pre, very smooth EQ, and the best feature is the built-in compressor/limiter. According to the spec sheets, the compressor was designed by EMI engineers in an attempt to mimic the Fairchild 670. I have to admit I've never had any significant experience with a Fairchild 670, so I don't know if they achieved their goal. In any case, the EMI compressor is unlike any I've ever used — it's a very cool thing. It's also nice to think, "Hey, maybe Ringo touched this." Zippah's got a pretty good arsenal of compressors. Like an LA3, a pair of LA4s, and some old dbx 165As. One sort of "sleeper" compressor I really like is the Urei/JBL 7110. They only made them for a couple of years, but they're great — very clean, very flexible. JBL marketed them as their attempt to combine the 1176 with an LA4. I use them all the time on guitars, room mics, piano. If you can find them for sale out there, they're usually pretty affordable. Hmmm, let's see, what else? We have three Blonder Tongue Audio Batons and mono tube graphic EQs from the 1950s. They're very cool looking with this rainbow design that's supposed to represent the colors of frequencies. They sound cool too. Not super clean. I'll often use one on a kick drum. The Mellotron gets a lot of use. Difficult to maintain and hard to keep in tune, but creepy and unique. I guess they're starting to build them again. Oh, like everyone else these days, I'm a big fan of the rack-mount SansAmp — it's not just for guitar anymore. I have to say I'm curious about the Pod. A few guitarists have brought them in and they seem pretty cool — kinda like a souped-up SansAmp — but I haven't had a chance to sit down with one and try it on non-guitar tracks.

On a few Willard Grant Conspiracy tracks you used effects pedals during the mixdown. Do you do this a lot?

Yeah, I've found there are some great effects possible with pedals that you just can't easily get with rack gear. For distortion, the old standby Big Muff is quite capable. I've had good luck using it to add distortion to a bass guitar during mixdown. There's plenty of low end and hardly any cheap grain. The Mutron pedals — hard to find — are very well built and almost "studio quality" when it comes to lack of noise. I've got a Mutron Phasor II that I swear by. I'm a fan of the Electro Harmonix Q- Tron, which is very similar to the old Mutron III envelope filter. Instant Bootsie. For the Willard Grant Conspiracy stuff, I think I actually used it on viola and drums on the song "Sticky." A very cool effect by Z Vex is the Seek Wah pedal.

I know that there are a few artists that you've worked with over several records.

Well, of course I've worked with you guys [Willard Grant Conspiracy] on three CDs and a slew of extra songs. Charlie Chesterman and I go way back — every solo album he's made since Scruffy the Cat broke up in 1990 has been done with me. I've worked with Seks Bomba on all their CDs. Don Lennon. John Huss.

I know that, at least with us, the familiarity has been a very positive thing. But on the other hand, it seems like there might be a challenge to up the ante each time. As a producer, do you look at it as a chance to get each recording up a notch?

Well, yes and no. Using Willard Grant Conspiracy and Charlie Chesterman as examples, I've gained your trust and friendship over the years, which makes communication easier. The last Willard Grant Conspiracy CD [Everything's Fine] was very painless to make even though it had some strange recording logistics. Because we see each other on a regular basis and keep in touch, we were able to plan the recording very well.

Yeah, we'd been bouncing around ideas for close to a year...

Right. Around the time we wrapped up the previous album [Mojave] we started casually discussing how the next one should sound, flow, etc. One thing we agreed on is that there should be piano and drums playing off each other live in the studio — not something achievable at Zippah for isolation reasons. When we had a clear picture of what it should sound like. We went into problem-solving mode and figured out the most cost-effective way of getting these sounds on tape — booking time for basic tracks at Rear Window, which has an amazing Steinway as well as enough isolation to track drums and piano at the same time.

What about Charlie Chesterman?

I'm thinking of his third solo CD, Dynamite Music Machine, which had a very raw, primitive, but powerful sound to it. We had just finished up his second album, Studebakersfield, which was a very mid-tempo, lush-sounding, beautiful album. It had string arrangements, gorgeous pedal steel, lots of really nice acoustic guitars, etc. It was kind of a textbook Americana record. Anyway, we finished that album and Charlie's attitude was, "Okay, I've got that out of my system. Now I wanna make an old-fashioned rock and roll record! I want it to sound like it was recorded live in the studio with one mic. How can we do that?" So it became this interesting challenge. We booked a weekend in Zippah as a "research session". I experimented with ways to set up the band in the live room so that they didn't have to wear headphones and there were minimal mics. In the end, the drums had three mics on them — one outside the kick drum, another vaguely near the snare but situated in a way that it was also picking up plenty of high hat and rack tom, and one overhead slightly favoring the ride cymbal/floor tom side. The guitar and bass amps had mics on them, but there was very little isolation. Bleed was encouraged, as long as it was musical. I subbed these mics onto two tracks of an 8-track, purposely limiting our options. It was great. Just about everything except for vocals was recorded live with no headphones. And it actually sounds great, just not very "modern." It couldn't have been more different than Studebakersfield, but I personally love both albums. I guess it's an example of not necessarily bringing a follow-up album up a notch, but being ready for whatever changes the artist is going through.

Can you think of other examples of problem solving that stretched your creative limits?

The Upper Crust's double live album, Entitled. They recorded it live over three nights in a large studio with a club-sized crowd and beer. When tracking was completed, there were several technical problems with the multitrack masters. The most alarming was the fact that the snare tracks had not gone to tape on six songs. That's a bummer — vocals, guitar, almost anything else is easily re-done in a situation like that, but you've got to have drums printed. Especially for the Crust's particular brand of, you know, in-your-face rock. So they brought me the tapes to mix and most of the songs went well, until we got to the ones that were missing the snare. I was able to trigger a sampled snare from a severely gated overhead track. With a lot of fiddling around, it sounded completely natural and I don't think anyone would know the difference. Good thing the overheads weren't missing!

I remember on our song "Marble" you and Peter Linnane and Brian Charles made a tape loop that went out of the control room, into the hallway.

Oh, man, I almost forgot about that. It was a loop of Walter Salas-Humara playing a brushed snare. The idea was to record the loop onto an old 78 rpm acetate — Brian has this cool old record cutter — and then use this degraded sound as the rhythmic basis for the song.

Why'd we do that? I forget...

Probably because it was fun and we weren't quite sure how it would sound. I remember being surprised at how "hi fi" it sounded — I'd been expecting it to sound super-crappy.

We've been talking about Charlie Chesterman, Seks Bomba, The Upper Crust, and us. You work with a very eclectic group of artists. It's interesting because a lot of producers become known for a certain style of music and wind up just working within that genre.

Well, you could look at it as being unfocused, but for me it keeps things fresh. It keeps me from falling into habits. I work on music I like and I like a lot of different types of music. I think it's going to allow me to do this for a while without burning out or hating music.

Are there any types of bands that you haven't worked with but would like to?

Lately, I'm intrigued with artists who fuse different styles of music together. I think musicians should be able to feel more freedom to incorporate any sound or any style.

Any fantasy sessions you'd like to share? It's a small dream of mine to get Elvis Costello and Dan Penn to do a record together.

Well, I've always wanted to convince Bruce Springsteen to do a traditional country album. Bruce? You reading this? Gimme a call.