How did you meet Dave Jerden?
About 12-13 years ago I was working on a Billy Idol record over at Track recording studio. It was a two- room facility, so while I was working with Billy Idol in one room, Dave was in the other room doing the Jane's Addiction record Ritual de lo Habitual. That's when I actually met him, and he asked me to come on over and hang out with him. He'd come over and watch me work. And it was like 6-9 months after I finished working on the Billy Idol record that I got a call from Dave's manager asking me if I would be interested in working exclusively as his engineer. And I said, "Yeah". [laughter] It was actually quite ironic, because if I could have any engineering gig, it was the gig I wanted the most — you know it kinda came out of the sky.
What was it like working with him for all those years?
Honestly, it was like going through a doctorate program in how to produce records. Dave had worked with the Rolling Stones, Jane's Addiction and Talking Heads. He was just a reservoir of knowledge on how to make records, going back 25-30 years. As I worked with him on a daily basis, practically everyday, 6 days a week for 10 years, it was like going to the best producing school you could ever imagine. Each record was different and we'd run into different challenges with every record. We had to approach every artist differently, depending on the type of material, the songs and how much development they were in need of.
Could you anticipate where he was going with particular tracks?
Definitely, by the end of the 10-year period. I pretty much knew what he would say in most situations. There'd still be occasions where, wow, he'd say something that would blow me away, out of the blue. Most situations I could start moving in a direction without him even saying anything. I would just know what he wanted.
Tell us something about the notion of guitars that developed between you and Dave Jerden.
It's interesting. The very first day that I worked with Dave Jerden I was scared. I thought, "What if he doesn't like what I do?" And when it came to recording guitars, it's very funny, because obviously there's a bazillion different ways you could do it. Mics — cabinets — amps — how many mics you use, where you put them. And I was just feeling a little intimidated and not even sure what Dave wanted. So it came to recording guitars, and I decided well I'm just going to go out there and put one SM57 right on the speaker, straight on run that SM57 to a Summit tube mic pre thru a Summit tube compressor and straight into the tape machine, and keep it simple. When I put up the guitar sound Dave started shouting, "What's that guitar sound!" I told him it was just a 57 pointed straight at the speaker and then run through some Summit gear. And he goes, "Th.. th.. that's the guitar sound I've been wanting to hear for 15 years! Keep on recording guitars like that." [laughing] That day and that incident is the way we based a lot of our guitar recording from then on. It was almost always a guitar amp with a 57 on it, but we would change things. Use different amps, cabinets or guitars, stomp boxes, or layer things — record multiple passes — and put them on top of one another. But we never ventured much from using just that one SM57 thru the Summit gear. And that's the sound you hear on Dirt. It was funny how it worked out that way. But that's how I had been recording guitars prior to working with Dave. Doing things simple. Although, early on, I didn't always have access to good equipment, like the Summit tube gear, which definitely makes a big difference. And man, that is a rock and roll guitar sound.
Tell us about working with the Offspring. After having a hit record they changed their production team and hooked up with you and Dave Jerden.
One funny thing about doing an Offspring record is that we'll get the entire song recorded — we'll get the drums, bass and guitars all done and then we'll come to do the vocals on a song... [laughs] and Dexter will say, "I need to sit down and write the lyrics for the song before we can get started." My assistant and I would look at each other wondering how he's gonna write the lyrics an hour before he's going to sing. [laughing] But he'd pull it off brilliantly every time. It's rather amazing. Some stuff he has a rough idea on when he comes in, as far as lyrics go, but other songs he might not have anything yet. He'll just sit down and bang 'em out and when you read them you know just about every 12 year-old kid in America is going to relate to what he's saying. Noodles is a great guitar player as well, along with Greg on bass and Ron on drums. They are all great musicians and great guys to hang out with. Those were two of the most enjoyable records I ever made.
What was it like working with Anthrax?
One thing about that record is the drums recorded very quickly. We recorded 17 songs in 3 days. That's the fastest Dave and I ever recorded basic tracks. Some interesting things about that band... [draws breath] the bass player and the drummer are related and they didn't get along very well. [laughs] So there were definitely some band tensions that made things a little difficult. But it was pretty comical at the same time. I really liked working with the band. I love Scott Ian's guitar playing and he's a good friend of mine. And then John Bush the singer is a good friend of mine. I've been a friend of his for like 15 years. So it was really fun working with them from that standpoint. On all the records I've worked on, my first mindset goes to all the difficulties that I encounter making that record. There were lots of people hanging out during that record. So there were lots of people in the control room all the time while you're trying to work — trying to stay focused. That record was also weird in that we moved around to a lot of studios. We started out at A&M and then went back to Eldorado to do overdubs. We worked about a week when some really heavy rains fell late one night in Hollywood. When we arrived at the studio the next morning, it was completely flooded. The SSL console had been turned on at the time and completely filled with water, starting on fire, producing a very noticeable odor you could smell as soon as you walked through the door.
Oh, no.
Dave got up on the roof to see what had happened. One of the rain gutters had gotten plugged, so he reached down through about a foot and half of water to see what was in it and he pulled out the head of a large dog.
That is so weird.
Yeah, just the dog's head, that's it. It was not a pleasant sight. [laughs] In fact, there is a picture someplace of Dave walking around with the dog's head stuck on a stick. We were calling him the beastmaster. [laughs] But, it ruined the studio we were working in. The repairs were going to take several months. So we ended up moving the recording to New York City and finishing the record there.
Eventually you shifted your attention towards production. When did you feel the need to start to go on your own and begin to produce records instead of working it from the engineering side?
Well, my goal from the very beginning had always been to produce records. My motivations, intentions, and designs were geared along those lines. That was one of the reasons I was excited about working with Dave Jerden, and one of the reasons I worked with him so long. I stayed with him until I felt like I had outgrown the position. I started producing records in-between the records I was working on with Dave and at some point it just felt like it was time to leave. Those ten years with Dave were a doctorate program in producing records. And after that it was just time to strike out — do it for myself. It was just the natural progression of growth.
Now, in doing so you have become one of the actual pre-eminent Pro Tools users around. Can you explain how that transition came about?
Oh yeah, definitely. Well it was pretty funny. It was 1994 and I had produced some stuff for White Zombie in between records I was doing with Dave. They had asked me to produce their next LP and that meant I would have had to stop working with Dave. I knew to do that White Zombie record I would have to be a Pro Tools user and a strong one, and I wasn't at that point yet. I ended up staying with Dave and only produced a few songs for White Zombie. Some of the royalties I got from that project I used to buy a Macintosh. I didn't know anything about computers and started playing with it every night. I ended up finding out... computers were one of those areas I just had an aptitude for. I just began learning the ins and outs of Macs, in how to maintain and keep them running, both hardware and software wise. I got an Audiomedia card and Pro Tools software for it and just started teaching myself Pro Tools. Then we did a Stabbing Westward record and I used my small Pro Tools system. It had 12 tracks and you could only listen to 4 at a time. I connected the S/PDIF in and out to the 48 track Sony digital tape machine, via the AES in and out on the back of the machine, using transformers to balance the impedance between the 2 machines. I synched the two using SMPTE and Word Clock and it worked flawlessly. I started putting vocals into Pro Tools for production, tuning, cool effects, or layering. After I started doing this I realized how powerful it would be if the entire record was in Pro Tools. The power to do production and editing, it would just be mind blowing. But there was no Pro Tools 24 yet. So, I sat down one night drew up this picture of my ideal Pro Tools rack that would essentially take the place of the Sony 48-track. I put the picture aside and didn't really think much of it. Then about six months later Digidesign announced the release of Pro Tools 24, which sounded better than the digital tape machine we were working on. I realized this was the time to make the transition. So I went hog wild and bought this huge Pro Tools system and got rid of the Sony. Dave was a little freaked out at first. But as soon as I got it in there and started using it I couldn't imagine working any other way and it came just in time for the Offspring record Americana. That record was very challenging to record from several aspects. One, there was a lot of recording to do, overdubs and little pieces. It was probably the equivalent of recording two records at once. The other thing is that we really wanted to see it done and in the stores by Christmas, and it was already the beginning of August — so I really had my hands full. I could never have done it without Pro Tools. It ended up doing very well.
Over 10 million.
