When Canadian rock band Sloan hit American college radio in 1992, even they might have been surprised to know that they would still be going stronger than ever in 2008. Since their debut album, Smeared, they have released album after album of perfect pop music. AC/DC riffage lives comfortably beside Beatle-esque melodies and vocal harmonies that would make The Zombies jealous — oftentimes in the same song. The band is comprised of equal members in Chris Murphy, Jay Ferguson, Andrew Scott and Patrick Pentland. They all sing, handle multiple instruments and are four distinctive songwriters — something few bands can claim. Sloan began in the early 1990s playing music in the maritime city of Halifax, Nova Scotia. They later moved to Toronto, where they continue to reside today. In many ways they have the best of both worlds: in Canada they are considered a national treasure, opening for such heavyweights as The Police and The Rolling Stones. In the U.S. they are a solid drawing indie band, regularly packing venues ranging from small, local clubs to New York's Bowery Ballroom. Through their very respectable career, they have remained hard working and ever dedicated to their craft. I sat down with Chris Murphy and Jay Ferguson to discuss the recording of Never Hear The End Of It (NHTEOI), as well as their upcoming ninth album, Parallel Play.
What were the first records that made you aware of the recording process?
C: The Jellyfishbabies! They made a record when we were still in high school.
J: They had a record out by 11th grade. I just remember being so impressed. It was expensive to put out a record back then [1985].
C: They recorded it at Centre For Art Tapes in Halifax, Nova Scotia [www.centreforarttapes.ca]. We ended up recording there too. Jay and I were in a band before Sloan called Kearny Lake Road.
J: That was our first real experience in a studio. It wasn't super high fidelity.
What was your first experience that brought the recording process into focus?
C: Well, I remember that it made my vocals sound awesome when doubled. That was an eye opener. Prior to that I felt really smart when I started planning out what I was going to do ahead of time. Going from 4-track to a real studio was a sad process of going from feeling like I knew how to do everything to feeling like I didn't know how to do anything. I really appreciate the professionals involved. I know enough to realize that they really know what they're doing.
J: We did the Kearny Lake Road recording at Centre For Art Tapes. We did the second one in Chris' basement with a 4-track. We thought the 4-track stuff sounded better than the first record, even though it sounded rougher. It made me realize that you can make something cool, even at home.
C: I would say this is well before we ever touched a compressor or a limiter. We just used the natural compression of the 4-track.
J: But not knowing what made it sound good. Not having the concept of "this is compressed."
What 4-track did you use?
C: I had a Tascam with six inputs. I had another 4-track prior to that though. It was stolen out of a car. For better or worse, the next record was done in an actual studio with a guy who loved reverb. Naturally there was a lot of reverb on that album!
J: It was done in 1989, in Fredericton, at Reel North Recording. It was in someone's home — a guy named Lloyd Hanson. He was in cahoots with a label called DTK, who wanted to put out our record. A guy named Peter Rowan, and his wife Dawn ran DTK. Peter went on to co-manage Sloan in the early days, and he also worked with Eric's Trip.
C: The record we made with Lloyd sounded slicker. J: We wanted to use reverb to sound like Fugazi's [13 Songs]. He was like, "Yeah, I can make you sound just like that." Of course it didn't. Those Fugazi records were so huge sounding, and we were recording in a tiny room that was dead. I like dead rooms now, but at the time we wanted that huge sound and digital reverb wasn't the same thing. That was a good learning experience.
What was the best recording experience you've ever had?
C: The last record [Never Hear the End of It]. We're still working on the new one [Parallel Play] and that's going well too.
J: We set up our practice space to record. Now we have no time constraints. We can experiment with drum sounds. If we waste an afternoon, who cares?
C: I'd much rather have [more] time than fidelity. Another good experience was making our first record, Smeared. We felt like we were a part of something big happening. Nirvana and My Bloody Valentine were making records that we loved. We felt they probably had influences similar to ours. Our next record, Twice Removed, seemed like it was going to be exciting. We had major label money and we were in New York City, but I hated the whole process. I hated receiving the money up front for a product we were supposed to create to make people happy. I hated working with [producer] Jim Rondinelli. New York was great but everything was so expensive. I wanted to live cheap so we could actually make a little money. Everybody kept saying, "It's someone else's money. Just spend it!" Even now I have a hard time getting my head around that concept. Growing up I was taught to save money. I loved hardcore, Dischord, SST and the indie aesthetic. Spending money wildly made no sense. There were numerous guitars and pieces of gear around. I'm not a fan of that kind of excess. I was just happy using my own bass. Some people can make the best of the situation where they have everything they want. I prefer to make the best of the situation I'm given.
J: Henry Hirsch [Tape Op #56] was involved with that studio though.
C: He was definitely a fan of old recordings and vintage gear. Jay and I were really into Plastic Ono Band at the time. We were insistent, "We wanna make that!" Henry said, "If you want to make that record here's what you have to do: You guys all have to play together, in the small room, not the big one." Jim Rondinelli was losing his mind. He was saying, "No! Don't listen to that guy!" We ended up only doing one song that way. We didn't actually record with Henry, but after his speech we recorded "I Can Feel It". Patrick has always been pissed that we kept the take where Andrew's hi-hat clasp comes undone. . I think it was the first take, actually. He always wished we had redone it. Henry was great. He called Eddie Kramer [Tape Op #24] to ask how he got that bass drum sound on Led Zeppelin III. Kramer was nonplussed, "Leave me alone. It was a mastering mistake!"
A good experience during an otherwise bad one?
C: We made a record that we're all proud of, and it's everyone's favorite, so there's that. If any of the songs on One Chord To Another had been given the Twice Removed treatment they might have been more widely appreciated. One Chord To Another was made on a much tighter budget, so we had to plan everything out.
J: I think you're attributing too much to the fact that people might like Twice Removed because it's "slick" and I want to rebel against that idea. To me it's about the music and the time-frame when people got into it. It stood out in an era of Smashing Pumpkins and Pearl Jam sound-a-likes. I think people who like one over the other have an association with it that goes beyond the actual music.
C: We think our latest record is the best one we've ever made, but we can't compete against the way someone might feel about an earlier record of ours because of everything else that might have been going on in his or her life at that time. Oftentimes bands that have been around awhile have to fight hard against that kind of nostalgia as they release new records.
J: You have to fight for the listener's brain space and shelf space. Twice Removed, One Chord To Another and Navy Blues are probably the core of most people's Sloan catalog — if they have one.
How did you stay organized during the 30-song undertaking that comprised Never Hear The End Of It?
C: There was a board that had color-coded push pins, the song names...
J: There was a slip of paper with the song title listed on it, the key the song started in and the key it ended in.
Right, because most of the songs ran together without breaks...
J: Yes. Every band member had a pin color. That way we could see who had what number of songs and how the songs could fit together in a running order. It was the best way to visualize how to put the album together.
C: I made slips of paper that were the same width but different lengths, based on how long the song was when we went to sequence it. That way we wouldn't put too many short songs, or songs by one person, in a row. Songs that were alike in some way were able to have distance between them on the record.
There's a similar experience on Between the Bridges where the songs flow seamlessly as well. Did that inspire you to do the same on NHTEOI?
J: It's much more extreme on NHTEOI. I think in both cases it's homage to bands we love. [The Who's] "A Quick One While He's Away" or [The Beatles'] Abbey Road.
All of the band members contribute to your albums. Does the band complete demos first and then collaborate?
J: I start with demos at home. At first I'm usually a little precious about how it's going to go. I'll get Chris to play bass because I like the way he plays; he comes up with great ideas. When Andrew plays drums he's great He has a distinct style. When Chris plays drums I get all of these references — Motown, Keith Moon or whatever — and he asks me what I think [as he offers them up]. Patrick and I generally don't play on each other's songs. Chris is really good about it. He'll come in with an idea and a structure. He'll say to Andrew, "How about playing piano on this one? Just come up with something." Andrew can be free on it. I can do that sometimes, but Patrick and I tend to stick to our original ideas a little more than Chris does.
C: I feel like there are two processes: "Beach Boys" and "The Beatles." The first is, "There's a sound in my head." The second is, "Anything goes." The "Beatles" way is the best way to behave, so that's why I choose do things in that manner. The alternative is the Brian Wilson way, which will make you go crazy because you'll never get it exactly right.
So, you get the most out of collaborating?
C: There's a romantic side to collaboration. I feel like I have everyone in the band somewhat pegged, but there's this little victory when a surprise happens. I do come in with an idea. I know how the song has got to go, but if someone has an idea of how the snare should sound I'm open to it. We keep each other in check. Everyone in this band has his strengths.
J: We're also lucky to have [touring musician, multi- instrumentalist] Gregory MacDonald with us now. We just got a piano a few weeks ago and I'm having him play the piano parts on my songs because he's better than me. It would take me four hours to get a take. He's like, "What do you want? Like this?" He's done in 15 minutes. Andrew's freer about things and Gregory will copy what you want perfectly.
C: Andrew is very musical. It can be a gamble, but you can get great things when you gamble. Gregory is more disciplined about things.
Do you feel the limitless availability of tracks these days makes people lazy or uncreative?
C: Well it definitely makes people lazy, but it depends on the person.
J: It's like that adage about how "guns don't kill people, people kill people."
C: Patrick loves technology. He talks more about filters, delays and echoes than song structure. He uses that as inspiration to come up with some really creative things. There are definitely more ways than there used to be for us to argue about aesthetics. Patrick probably thinks we're Luddites. [Chris and Jay laugh] He'll play something for me and say he ran it through the something or other. I'd rather find a way to do it with two mics.
J: It's nice to get your own "found sounds" when you use traditional means to record.
C: I'm finding the most difficult way to do things and Patrick's enjoying how easy it is. He always says he's never, ever recording to tape again. Maybe I'm just rejecting technology in some ways, but I'm trying to retain some of the ways they used to make records. Patrick has embraced technology, while Jay and I have learned it, but in a retrofit way. Andrew doesn't even know how to use it to make demos. When you're of the opinion that the best records were made in the late '60s, I don't know what new technology can bring you. There's a lot of awesome stuff you can do if you're making modern records. We probably don't take full advantage of that potential.
What are some things that you like about computer-based recording?
C: I use that for song structure stuff. I'll make up a song on the phone — on my phone machine...
What? Explain that!
C: I watch TV. I call my machine with an idea when I get one or when there's a commercial. I call back with a variation or complimentary part. I like to record the original mumbling onto the computer from the phone. I have enough half-baked songs in the can to last a few years. I cut a crappy version in Logic. I'll mark it so the chorus is red — I assign different colors to the verse, chorus and other parts of the song. I draw it out until the color scheme looks right, then I'll listen to that and take it from there. I work visually these days, but once that's out of the way, I'd be just as happy putting it on tape. I like Logic mostly as a workbook type thing.
J: Well, it's made things more affordable for us though. We can make a record here [in the practice space]. If we had to buy tape machines and associated gear, we couldn't afford to do it.
Which do you prefer: a good take with a lot of energy, warts and all or something that's pristine but maybe hammered to death?
C: I know what the right answer is. [laughs] J: Well, these days, with computers we can have it both ways. When we were recording the new record we could just use take one because it had great energy, but we'd also splice in some really cool fills from take three. It's less romantic, but it's the way we have to work. The first record we did on the computer, Pretty Together, suffers from not knowing how to use computers that well. The record we just made [NHTEOI], and the one we're currently recording are both done in Logic and sound much more like we want them to. J: There was a different person at the helm. Brendan McGuire did both Between the Bridges [to tape] and Pretty Together [using Logic]. I think I prefer the sound of Between The Bridges more. He was more clinical and smoothed a lot of edges on Pretty Together. I think NHTEOI has rough edges all over it, which is nice.
What can we expect on the new record [Parallel Play]?
J: You're going to hear acoustic guitars recorded into a cassette machine. We used the coveted Sankyo brand, by the way. It gives it that Beggar's Banquet, "Street Fighting Man," vibe. We placed it about a foot away from the soundhole, utilizing the built-in microphone.
That's a great recording trick!
J: I was listening to rough records all summer, like Beggar's Banquet and old blues records, like Muddy Waters. I thought, "I'm going to make my songs sound like this." The new album won't be as long. I almost want to make a reaction to the last album, which had 30 songs.
Maybe you could just bang out two short ones, close together?
J: Sony/BMG, who we work with here in Canada, suggested that we break up NHTEOI into two records but I'm glad we didn't.
C: The way we've done things in the past was based on how we were set up at the time. Now that we have this studio I love the idea of releasing records more often. The time between Action Pact, which came out in 2003 and NHTEOI, which came out in 2006, seemed like ten fucking years. Especially because Action Pact was such an anomaly, in that it didn't seem to utilize all of our strengths. It was a specific, straight ahead, rock record and it's in some ways our most-hated record.
Among the band members?
C: Maybe. I'll bet Andrew hates it. I don't think Jay loves it. I defend it because I have some good songs on it, but it's another one where I think the sounds aren't that interesting. It sounds flat.
It does come at you a little more strongly than the others.
J: There's less dynamic difference. There are no Andrew songs, which are key ingredients to our records.
C: Action Pact existed as our most recent document for so long that it seemed like a lot of people wrote us off. If we had followed it up a year later they would have thought, "Oh, that's just something they did that one time."
I do think Action Pact is a great record. Then NHTEOI came along. It's all over the place. It seems like a response album to me.
J: Oh, it is.
C: On Action Pact [producer] Tom Rothrock [Tape Op #9] thought we should eliminate a lot of the eclecticism. He said, "You've got a great drummer. You all can sing." We had models of some songs that were hard rock and he encouraged us to do that kind of thing. "No chaff, no bullshit, just do that." I think he wanted us to make our Back In Black.
J: Or [Ratt's] Out of the Cellar. [laughs]
C: He likes his Ratt. I was interested in trying that too. I may be defending my contributions, but I don't hate it. I wish we had planned to make a one-dimensional record then follow it up with a crazy one, but it wasn't planned like that.
J: Also in that period of 2003-2006, an entire underground scene that had been bubbling under the surface just blew up. Broken Social Scene, Feist, Stars, Wolf Parade, Arcade Fire and the whole Arts & Crafts [label] — and we weren't there for it. I think people might have seen us at the old guard because of that. NHTEOI was us proving that we could be dynamic, wild and excellently recorded.
You've brought up the Arts & Crafts scene, which makes me think of how incredible the government's grants program is here in Canada. Can you tell me how and if that helped Sloan?
J: It's a great program, but we never used it to make records. We funded a lot of things on our own. There's a foundation called VideoFACT, which is sponsored by MuchMusic [similar to MTV]. They have video grants, and we've done well by that. As far as recording is concerned, we haven't used it, but it's really important and it helps bands. The bands on Arts & Crafts didn't have the benefit of being on a major label [like Sloan] and getting that money and momentum. Almost all of those bands have used FACTOR [Foundation to Assist Canadian Talent On Recordings] grants in some way.
What do you call this studio/space? Has it been christened?
C: We used to call it "Powerline Park."
J: Yeah, there used to be power lines on the other side of this building, but now people are putting up condos. C: [yells to Nick] Hey Nick, do we call this place anything? Nick: [from control room] Um... no. J: "Nick's Deli?" C: "The Spaghetti Bowl?"
How you plan to make records in the future?
C: I'm so happy to have this setup. It's awesome. J: Yeah, I wouldn't want to record any other way. The only thing I'd like to have is more time in my day. If I tell my girlfriend that I'll be home in eight hours, it just seems like I'm saying we're over here dicking around with my friends. If I had a pain in the ass job I could explain to everyone that it's actually work that has to be done. Because we're also entrepreneurs, if we don't come up with content we'll die.
Any parting words?
J: I want to say that the most "punk" band from Canada, ever, is Rush. They made these berserk records. People kept telling them to tone it down and they said, [in defiant, punk voice] "Fuck Yooooouuu." And they had their own label.
C: Yeah, they started it all. That was waaaaay before Minor Threat. [laughs]
