Kevin Renick | TapeOp

Your career of playing music is kind of more recent to the public eye.

Well, yeah, I was described as going through the looking glass, 'cause for many years, even though I did music as a hobby — I wrote songs and played guitar for my own amusement and for friends — I was a music journalist. I wrote for Sauce for a couple years, a local magazine. I wrote for Playback: stl for many years. I did a little bit for the River Front Times and other publications as well, so that's kind of what I was doing besides my regular proofreading job at an ad agency, but that was the bread and butter.

Yeah, you always have to have something steady.

Yeah, 'cause very few people make a living from writing about music, you know. [laughs]

Dave Marsh maybe...

Yeah, exactly. I was doing that for a long time and I had dreamed about making a record some day. I always felt like I had enough good songs to make a record but had no delusions about actually getting into it seriously until late 2008. I did a Neil Young tribute show and people started telling me I sounded like Neil Young; the guy that owned this little coffee shop was really impressed with this little guest slot I did there, so he asked me if I wanted to do my own show and I said sure. I talked a couple of friends into joining the deal with me, and I just started doing that very casually. But meanwhile I'd written this song called "Up in the Air ." Most of my songs tended to be about uncertainty or not knowing what the heck I was doing with my life or longing for love — all the grandiose things. So I thought it was a pretty decent song, but I wouldn't have done anything with it if a movie hadn't come along called Up in the Air . It was an astonishing bit of serendipity. And still, nothing would have happened if Jason Reitman hadn't come to St. Louis. If he had been shooting it in L.A. or something, and I sent him a tape or CD through the mail, it never would have gotten to him. I know that.

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You gave him a cassette tape, right?

I gave him a cassette tape. I had recorded most of my songs on cassette. I was a lo-fi kind of guy. I didn't have the money to buy digital equipment at that point.

So were you using just a stereo cassette deck to record things to or a 4-track?

It was a little Realistic recorder — an old RadioShack thing. The night before his lecture, here in St. Louis, I just put a couple of takes of the song on there and I even described why I thought it might be appropriate for the movie.

You knew the movie was called Up in the Air but you'd already written the song called "Up in the Air?" That's a weird coincidence.

Yeah, right. And I wasn't sure even what the theme was of the movie. I knew that George Clooney was in it. I thought George Clooney played a pilot who was trying to find the meaning of life or something. So, I just barged up to him — first, I asked if it was okay to give him the song and there was some laughter in the audience cause it was a Q&A. So I put my hand up, but I'll never forget what he said. I said, "Would you be kind enough to listen to this song?" And there was a pause and he said, "Sure." He said, "The more different the way I get the music, the better." I thought that was kind of cool.

Not a music supervisor shoving things under his nose.

Yeah, right. So then he probably didn't think I was going to follow through, but I chased him down after his lecture and handed him this package. He actually felt it and said, "Oh, this is a cassette. I don't even have a cassette recorder. I don't know where I'm going to listen to it." I thought I was doomed; I thought nothing's going to happen with this. But I found out that either that day or the next day he actually went over to a friend's car with a car stereo and played it and liked it. That was just the most wild thing that could have happened to me.

And they used your original cassette version for the movie, right?

They used the same thing I recorded on that little recorder. They even used my voice introduction saying, "Hi, Jason. My name is Kevin and this is a song about uncertainty and trying to find my way." That's in the credits. [laughs]

So that was your demo setup, just catch it on a cassette recorder?

Yeah, I had pretty much been recording everything on cassette; I still have a bunch of cassettes that I've recorded little melodies and fragments on. I just call them Kevin's Tidbits, you know; so whenever I get a melodic idea which I do sometimes in the middle of the night, I just turn on the cassette and sing into it or play some chords and then later on I develop the song out of it.

Have you done anything or bought anything now? You have several CDs out now.

Yeah, I've been able to work with a few engineers. I've reinvested a lot of my Up in the Air money into trying to keep recording stuff, 'cause I do want to get somewhere with this. My notion is that if I just keep putting a lot of effort into recording songs, writing songs — I have another song coming out in a movie next year which is not going to be quite on the level of Up in the Air , but it has been accepted. It's a song called "Ballad of the American Farmer" and it's another acoustic kind of narrative, but in this case it's about the farming crisis and it's for a documentary called In the Interest of National Security . I have two other directors that I've been in loose communication with. I'm just trying to make the connections and see where it goes. It's very cool that I tapped into this angst that I guess a lot of people were feeling — after Up in the Air I got emails from around the world — I'm talking countries like India and Iran and South Africa. People would write to me and say, " You're speaking for me . This is how I felt about my life and my job situation." I could never have imagined that in a million years.

And also, you're not 22... Do you think it's something that could only come out when you've been through part of your life and look at it and go, "Fuck!"

Exactly. That's one of the reasons I think that Jason Reitman was so intrigued, because I was an older guy and he said that. He said he's used to teenagers coming up to him to give him songs, but here comes this old guy with a cassette so that got his attention. It was different. I think my influences are kind of intriguing too. My two biggest influences are Brian Eno and Neil Young. Strangely, in terms of their attitudes, they have a lot in common. They do exactly what they want. They don't care what anybody thinks. They're kind of outsiders, and it's just a coincidence that I sound a little bit like Neil Young. I just did a Neil Young tribute concert last week which was about the 4th or 5th one and now we actually have a side project called Shaky Deal. It's kind of interesting that you can hear the singer-songwriter thing in my music, but if you listen carefully you'll also hear the influence of the ambient stuff. Of course it's overt on The Road To Olandra [an ambient/spoken word collaboration with John Sobocan], but it's there on other stuff, too.

If you get into what Brian Eno's done, there are a lot of things to pull from it.

One of his aesthetics — and I think it's even one of the Oblique Strategies — but there was a time when I was feeling really depressed and down about not being more technically proficient. I thought, "Man, I'm never going to be a guitar whiz like some of these guys." I knew I could write songs because I was a writer, but I just didn't feel technically I was ever going to get very skilled. He had a thing where he said, "Obstacles can be tools to one's advantage," which I'm pretty sure is one of the Oblique Strategies . That was a light bulb moment for me. It was, like, "Yeah, I should just do what I can do!" Not try to be like some guy who's been doing it for 40 years, but I can do my style and say what I have to say. That really was like a freeing sort of thing for me.

That's a good thing to take from that.

Not to mention the whole thing of like the studio is where you can make the magic. As he's always said — use the studio as its own art form.

Speaking of studios, after Up in the Air I know you did your first record, Close To Something Beautiful . How did you go about it?

Yeah, the first one was done on a really low budget — about a thousand bucks. I recorded it with a guy named Mike Martin who has been recording St. Louis bands, regional bands, for quite a while. You know, I was stumbling my way through it just learning stuff, but I wanted to do that. I wanted to have the experience of "okay, I'm going in fresh for the first time to try to see how this is." Mike was a big help, and the musicians were all a lot of fun. I worked with some kids on a song called "Read a Book" which was just a children's song. We had fun, but I knew the stakes were going to keep getting higher. So the next time I used a guy named Justin Robinson who was a slightly more sophisticated engineer — had some better stuff, better equipment — and we did some of the songs on the Come On Down EP. But then one of them I worked with a guy named Adam Long and that's where the real turning point came. That's a song called "Call it a Life." Adam Long is actually a Grammy-nominated engineer. He's done a bunch of Broadway cast albums. He's got a home studio and he absolutely gets what I'm trying to do — the sort of introspective, contemplative vibe that I'm trying to capture. He was just magical to work with. I'm going to do most of the next record with him.

He said he's used to teenagers coming up to him to give him songs, but here comes this old guy with a cassette so that got his attention. It was different.

I think that's an interesting point you bring up — find someone that just gels with you.

Yeah, exactly. I think there's always an interesting rapport and communication that you have with people recording you. If you're open with them, they're going to give you their feedback and their take on things and that's going to flavor what comes out — that's kinda cool. But with Adam, he just sees more deeply. He was very proactive. He would make suggestions. He wouldn't just listen to what we were doing. On "Lost Time" there is an instrumental section in the middle where my partner, Ted Moniak, started doing these little ambient reverberations on the guitar and Adam picked up on it and started tweaking some dials, getting some echo in there. It was just an amazing thing 'cause I've always said that I want music that can give you chills. In fact I wrote to Eno about this once — I called it the "shiver factor" — and Eno agreed with that; he said he likes that too. I may not be to the point where everything I do is going to be like that, but I'm striving for that — that kind of emotional impact from something in the song or some little sound you get that just really clicks.

That emotion can come from the voice and lyrics, but it can come from the feel and the sounds.

I find that a lot of music I hear doesn't really do that because they're so wrapped up in the production and everything has to be just perfect. It's just gotta be a well oiled machine — and that's kinda missing. That's one of the things that drew me to Scandinavian music, by the way, which is another side passion I have. There's a lot of stuff that has come out of Scandinavia that is like that. The vocals are very intimate, the music is kinda quirky — the arrangements are a little bit different. I get chills from that stuff a lot, like the Icelandic stuff. Music should have an impact. I mean, there's a kind of music where it's okay if it's disposable. Fun stuff, stuff to make you snap your fingers and drive down the road, and all that. I like that but the stuff that you retain in your memory and your subconscious is the stuff that has an emotional wallop to it.

Neil Young — his work always about searching for that.

He's a master of simplicity. He'll take something that's really elemental — I was so surprised when I found out that most of his songs are three or four chords. The trick is putting some kind of zest or extra passion into it like he does.

When things started taking off, did you already have a website at all, when Up in the Air was coming together?

Not when it first came out. I put one together very quickly. I would love to make a living from this, but I like learning as I go and I like taking steps. It's interesting to me how some gigs hardly anybody shows up then others go really well and people come up and compliment you. I just love the learning of it and I'm enjoying the ride. But yes, I would like to get somewhere with it. I've written 162 songs now and I do want to do something with them and get into more movies and all that. I'm trying to be patient, but at the same time I want to meet the people that can kind of see what I'm doing and find something in the songs that will work for their projects.

As a music journalist you probably saw the same thing from the other side where you'd be like, "This is great. How come no one's at this show?"

Oh absolutely. I used to champion acts, as you have, acts that weren't getting that much attention or were overlooked. There's a lot of beautiful music out there that people just don't know about at all except a handful, and I feel bad for these people. I look up to them and I write to them and they tell me they barely make any money themselves. I guess I'm in good company. [laughter]

At this point, are you still recording demos at home on cassette?

I did buy a tiny little digital recorder not long ago. I'm trying to figure out how it works, but I'm still using cassettes too. I like cassettes. I grew up with them and they're just part of my whole aesthetic. Just the other night — sometimes my songs come from dreams, and if it feels like a big idea, I'll go and do it right away. Studio recording is to me just really fascinating and potentially so magical. I'm excited to get to the point where I have a big budget to work with and I can do stuff that matches what I hear. Sometimes it's frustrating to hear these big soundscapes in my head. I can hear string sections and choral music and stuff but when I go to record, basically it's just me and my other guitarist. I have a band I can work with on some songs, but then I have to try and get my ideas across to them. It's frustrating sometimes.