As a studio owner, I've seen all levels of people calling themselves engineers coming through here. When I see younger engineers coming in who really know their shit, I wonder, "What did they do right that makes them so much more competent?" You're in that group of highly competent and busy engineers.
That's very kind of you! I wanted to be a producer, starting at a very early age. I started interning at a recording studio while in high school, around 2002 or 2003 in Atlanta, and the music scene there was booming. I assisted on sessions for CeeLo [Green] and Usher. Outkast was working on Speakerboxx/The Love Below next door, so all of this excitement and musical energy made a big impression on me. But without even really knowing it at the time, I was seeing the fall of the studio industry. Then I went to college for recording at NYU. I was accepted into the Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music in 2005. In many ways I was a natural casualty of the time – someone who wanted to become a music producer at a serious juncture in the music business. I quickly realized, "Okay, this isn't going to entirely work like it used to. How do you work as a studio engineer in this new environment?" I feel like I was lucky to see the days of yore, and also feel like I've been lucky to find my way around in the modern environment.
What do you see as the new skill set that one needs to make their way as an engineer or producer?
I'm a child of Phish and the Grateful Dead, so I was not only raised in studios but concert venues as well. I believe it's critical for anyone who wants to be an engineer today to have some experience in the live environment. Working in venues, or on the road, both front-of-house and monitors, and learning to multitrack live, is not only going to make you a better engineer but will help you learn how to handle the volume of work that's required to have a successful career. When I was in college in New York, I started working at every venue that had an available slot. I managed to snag gigs in smaller rooms, and then I started working at Brooklyn Bowl, where I got to work with bigger touring bands, as well as on digital consoles. I actually still keep a day job in the "live realm." I oversee production at Central Synagogue in midtown Manhattan. I'm not mixing their services on Fridays and Saturdays anymore, but I supervise the production crew and maintain the sound and video systems for one of the most beautiful and historic rooms in the country. It's very rewarding work, because it's work of value. And the "God industry" is not going anywhere. I get to employ musicians and engineers who are on the road with major acts. They're mixing in the room and for livestream, and it's the most-watched Jewish broadcast in the world. Living in New York does makes for a different economic situation than most places in the country, but you're seeing it get harder everywhere. Even Nashville's getting more expensive. Having a day gig and trying to create a situation that works with a producer's life is hard to come across; but if you manifest it and try to make it work, it can really help.
I've always thought that if you want to make records that you care about and like, there's not always a lot of money there. It's important to be able to support yourself with some secondary gig so that when a project comes along that may not pay well, you can do it. Is that part of your plan?
No question about it! By having day work and managing my schedule efficiently, I'm actually able to take on low-budget projects and work my prices to make sure it suits an artist's budget. Because of that, I get to help people out and work with some amazing artists. I would love to get my full rate for every project, but we all know that's not realistic.
If you do take a project on for less than your day rate, do you try to get some back-end on it?
Back-end isn't something I'm really interested in unless we're cutting my price so significantly that they're almost obligated to give me back-end. In that case, I'll discuss it with their management. But I find that back-end is a useless conversation these days.
Because there is no back-end?
Correct.
I would disagree with you there.
Are you still getting publishing checks?
Yes, I did a handful of records on spec at a certain point; they all got signed and I still see money from those. Getting some back-end, at least up to what you would have been paid, helps establish your value.
This is true. There have definitely been situations where I've dug that hole for myself. But if they value my work, they'll come back in due time. I guess the main thing is keeping up your livelihood, because this work ain't about getting rich. Anyway, with the state of the industry and artists seemingly getting more anxious about the recording process, I got a little tired of only making records. I started working in film, specifically music films. It's been an unbelievable creative outlet for me.
Does it pay better?
A little. It's exciting work. Adding a visual element to audio is naturally going to excite the situation.
So how did you get started doing films and producing?
