If you've been keeping up with the explosion of popularity around hardcore and heavy alternative music, chances are you've heard the name Jon Markson. After a decade in the trenches as a producer and performer in Brooklyn's punk and indie scene, he has returned to his native Allentown, Pennsylvania, and formed a close alliance with The Animal Farm studio in bucolic Flemington, New Jersey. Studio owner John Forrestal operates the farm as an animal rescue but also as a tracking destination for bands who want to escape New York, or maybe just talk to a cow. I arrived on a crisp fall day to meet these two and hear about all the noise that Markson has been making on the Farm.
What were your early musical influences?
As early as I can remember, I was drawn to the guitar. My older cousins were in bands and introduced me to a lot of alternative music. Everything from Bad Religion, to Pinback, to Pig Destroyer. They gave me an old guitar, so I started teaching myself. Allentown and the Lehigh Valley had a pretty active scene, so my friends and I formed bands as soon as we could play. There was a high concentration of aggressive, technically-minded guitar bands of a wide variety. Arthur Rizk [Tape Op #150] is from nearby Easton, PA, and I would go see his grind bands completely tear the house down. It was inspiring.
It must be something with that grey valley weather. What lead you to producing?
From moment one, my role has always been the strong "support the bigger picture" ideas guy. I did write songs alone, but I was more often writing with others; helping them arrange and conceptualize. I got an 8-track not long after getting a guitar, and I obsessed over the navel gaze of recording my own songs but also helping other people record theirs. A family friend, Eric Eisenberg, played in my favorite local bands and had one of the busier local studios. He took me under his wing when I was in high school; he included me in his bands, showed me how to cut records and use gear, and generally how to see/hear a project to the finish line. My mom is an amazing pianist, and her cousin, Lori Goldston, played cello with Nirvana on the MTV Unplugged in New York album, as well as on some later tours. That planted this seed in my head that one could have a rock 'n' roll career without being the rockstar.
How did you end up in Brooklyn, [New York,] at The Gallery [Recording Studio]?
I went to college as a music major and continued to make records for myself and others. I interned at a few different studios and landed at The Gallery in 2010. It was in the infamous McKibbin Lofts in Bushwick, and it was built by Brian Forbes and Keith Parker; hungry New York engineer types working on a lot of neo soul and free jazz, respectively. They taught me the Jedi brain of handling sessions and dealing with artists. They, along with my collection of Tape Ops, taught me that it was less about scooping some mids out of your kick drum, and more about realizing that you shouldn't compare an artist's music to another artist's music during a session. After graduating, I joined the band Such Gold and started working at The Gallery full time, thrust immediately into back-to-back sessions and touring for six months a year. For the first few years my rent was very low, and studio overhead was even lower as I was living in the studio at the time. There is an incredible scene in New York. I would record an MC on Monday, a jazz ensemble on Tuesday, and an EP for a punk band on Wednesday. It's a creative mecca for a reason.
Your last stop in Brooklyn was in the Pfizer Building. What was the pivot to leave the city?
The Animal Farm
It became clear that I had to leave when I realized that 75 percent of my work was with full-time touring bands. I love New York City, but I was feeling a little creatively stifled by being around everyone's anxious energy. I'm not an anxious person myself, but being around that, as well as not having access to nature, was starting to grate on me.
How did you find the Animal Farm?
I came here to buy a pair of Yamaha NS-10s from John when I came back to Pennsylvania to set up a studio. He's passionate about making records, but he's also a teacher with a full-time job. I immediately asked about doing a record here, and I’ve done about 90 percent of my tracking here since. There is something about the recording studio itself; it's cliché to say it's an instrument, but it's that holistic lens that helps artists get creative and connect with the producer. I love to be in a place where people feel onsite. People feel exploratory every morning. They go outside and talk to the cow. They pull into the property and are greeted by a bunch of chickens saying, "Welcome!"
The idea of an animal rescue meets recording studio is incredible!
Most artists and band types are more in touch with their feelings than the general person. Coming to a place where they're surrounded by animals… it's hard to describe, because I didn't expect this to happen, but it opens people up to the creative experience. Completely, diametrically opposite to New York City. They come here and feel on location, and in the mindset to make a record. Not because the chickens are coming into the control room to hang out. They can step outside to clear their heads for a second in a way that's hard to do elsewhere. There's something idyllic about it that feels like a getaway. Bands love coming here, and I love working here.
"Jon's approach to production is like a rare gem that I was so lucky to find. He's obsessive, in the most stimulating way. Working together, we've uncovered these parallels between electronic music and hardcore, and it's amazing when fans tell me they hear it in the albums we've made together." -John Jagos of Brothertiger
Have you had to deal with chicken noise on overdubs?
No, but everyone develops a relationship with the cow. They all go out every morning and talk to him. "I hope that my palm mute sounds good today." It helps people get into a creative moment, and that's one of the most important things in the studio. A band's energy and songs are paramount, but then the major lenses are the producer and the facility. In the temporal collection of moments when we're all creating something and those three elements resonate together, it's incredible. There's something magical about surrendering to a space and letting it guide what's happening.
Let's look around the studio a bit. That's a whole lot of microphones in that tool drawer!
It's inspiring when everyone looks in it together. This telephone mic sounds amazing on a guitar solo, or on vocal overdubs. It's so pointy around 1.9 kHz, where your ears are the most sensitive. As guitar tone junkies, John and I both love having different choices for dynamic mics. We have a ton of options, but it's usually a Peluso 22 47 SE or a Shure SM7B for vocals.
There are drums here for use too.
Feel the heaviness of this snare drum. [hands over an ungodly heavy brass Oriollo Bellmaker] It's the heaviest, biggest, loudest snare drum you could imagine. Drummers' rim shots may sound weak if a shell is bending under their hand, but this shell will never bend. This snare ends up on a lot of records because it projects and has so much body and tone. Metal snare drums are always my preference on rock records, and we have a ton of different dimensions and builds to experiment with. On the Regulate [self-titled] record I used a kick tunnel and put the sub kick on the end of the tunnel in pursuit of extra low end extension for a hardcore record. I love old Altec preamps on room mics because they restrict the signal and immediately sound crunchy and midrange-y. Delay that by 25 ms and I'll get a slap happening from the snare drum. Diffuse the room mics in a small drum room, delay them 25 ms, and bus with a touch of close mics to a distortion and a reverb and we've got something happening!
Jon's hands on production approach (photo by Michael Dubin)
In addition to having "one of the best snare collections on the East Coast," there's also an incredible array of amps here on The Farm.
Yes, and this golden Marshall 100 watt JCM800 head used to belong to the guitar player in my band Such Gold. Word has it that Steve Evetts [Tape Op #56] offered to buy it from him because it sounded so good. One amp that I use on almost every project is the Fender Vibro Champ. With the volume, bass, and treble at 10, it has this natural, creamy fuzz. If I stick a Sennheiser MD 421 mic off axis, right in front of that 8-inch speaker, I get this bass response that is never bloated but, instead, so loud. Combine that with the 800, or this Sovtek Mig 100h, and you have something incredible. I've always been obsessed with combining amps, and I have enjoyed making my life complicated in pursuit of tone. [laughs] I often combine two or three different sources, as well as a parallel blend of a [Tech 21] SansAmp, for texture and attitude.
Photo by Sam Retzer
What about bass guitar?
For bass I love solid state amps, like this Acoustic [Model] 470 with built-in distortion. Or, I'll take a Mesa Boogie Bass 400+ into an 8 by 10-inch [cabinet] with a SansAmp for a modern clangy sound, and combine that with an Ampeg V 4 with the mids all the way up into a 15-inch [cabinet]. I want to get them as well in phase as possible, while letting the intense difference between sources add up to something that I could never get out of just one [amp].
How would you describe your production style?
I'm not looking to make it impossibly slick. My natural inclination is to take the thickness and intensity of punk and communicate that loudly and broadly. I also have a predilection to hearing tuneful vocals. Even in aggressive music, I always end up comping and directing for pitch. Drug Church is the perfect case in point. When we first started working together, none of us expected to get as "tuneful" as it did. Working through vocals with Pat [Kindlon], I started to hear this internal melody to his cadence. At some point the vision "clicked" and we ran with it. That lead to this notable “non-singer” attempting to be melodious and stumbling his way into hitting extremely catchy melodies (somewhat) precisely.
Where does that pop influence come from?
I appreciate the nuance and schmaltziness of certain kinds of vocal deliveries. The emotion that comes across with a vocalist or guitarist on how they approach or hang on a note is powerful. I get obsessive about the sound of a vowel in contrast to the note. If someone's singing an "ah" sound, we may try different ways of singing that note in contrast to the music. At times I can get myopic, but when something is really ringing from a vocal performance, the performance of guitars, and the whole image of a band, I will get extremely pumped. I'll jump up and down.
I imagine you're pretty light-handed on editing and tuning.
I'm actually heavy-handed, but more so on comping than anything. I will do a lot of vocal takes. Sometimes the magic is all in the first three takes, or maybe something only reveals itself after we do it seven or more times. For pitch correction, some people may need it more than others. Brothertiger [John Jagos] has developed some interesting singing habits from monitoring his [Antares] Auto-Tune-d vocals for so many years. We'll work through two vocal layers that are pretty bang on in tune, and then chorus the bejesus out of them in a million ways. We can craft layers of harmony and vibe, and help them be translucent by not rubbing against the lead vocal. One can obviously go too far and remove the energy with tuning, but there is something so musical about helping a vocal sit confidently, no matter what it takes.
The Brothertiger material is sonically very '80s-based. Were you using a different set of tools compared to more straightforward punk productions?
It's not dissimilar from what I add in a rock music environment, both musically and sonically. I want the production to hit a certain way, and I'm giving the band lots of little sub hooks. Every moment needs to have a memorable sticky element to it. He uses a ton of analog synths, and the new album relied heavily on a Yamaha DX7 and Ensoniq samplers. We used these '80s Roland guitar and bass preamp boxes that have this vicious compressor in them. We'd put spanky synth bass guitar through it, or use it to abuse drums.
Was your outboard setup also '80s inspired?
For both heavy rock and pop music I'm very into vintage digital gear. Yamaha SPX90s, Lexicon PCM60s, and dbx 120As. I may use them more deliberately on Brothertiger, but the symphonic patch on the SPX90 sounds great on Patrick from Drug Church too! It depends on how I use it and how I abuse it. Bands can be as freaky and as creative as they want in 2022, and audiences not only accept them, they are hungry for it. More often bands come in that want to do something that expands their horizons. If they feel a little bit bashful about it during the process, then it's up to me to push and support them.
It's not going to sound as radical as you think, by the time you're done.
Exactly. That's a big point for any singer, too, and I've been guilty of this. My band, Such Gold, did their record at The Blasting Room with Bill Stevenson [Tape Op #12] who is a huge influence for me. He's an insane vocal coach. I started doing takes, and he asked, "Why are you singing that like a nerd?" I was leaning into an element of my voice versus letting something happen naturally. If you let it come out and be brave about it, you're going to sound like yourself. You don't need to try hard to sound like yourself. In the same way here, even if you are doing something radical, you just need to let it happen. If you have this idea that you want extremely loud gated reverb on your snare drum, move through with confidence.
Recording Koyo
Is it challenging to track here, with your mix room in back in Allentown?
I like having that separation, because the recording studio influences the sonic palette. There's a separate space where I can be emotionally in tune with the mix, with a consistent sounding environment to be critical in. Often, I split to a few amps at the same time for a singular tone and may use a couple of mics on each cab. I'm not coming home with ten microphone tracks per tone; I'm coming home with two, and it's representative of the work I put in during tracking. When I come back to my space and mix, I'm not automatically conforming to what my Dutch & Dutch 8Cs and NS-10s sound like at home. Texturally, it's going to feel different from mix to mix, but to have an environment in which I'm physically feeling the bottom end the same helps me have a compass. I got the Dutch & Dutch recommendation from Jason Livermore [In this issue. Ed.] of The Blasting Room, who's one of my favorite rock mixers of all time.
It sounds like you have a system to bring things home from The Animal Farm.
Eventually, I'd like to build something similar out there, but no time soon. This place has such a special vibe that I hope I can bring to a ton of bands. John has been extremely generous to me because he's so passionate about recording music and he'll open his doors to this person who's driven to work on records and make a lot of noise. For someone so in love with guitar pedals and amps, he thinks this is awesome.
What a great partnership.
It's incredible that, in this moment, you and Tape Op are covering the people that are making aggressive records. In so many ways, this music is on the forefront of what's happening. Pop and electronic circles are taking note, and there seems to be this cross pollination that is really resonating with audiences. It's amazing to feel the moment our world is having, and that bands are doing well and making a living. From my perception, there's more fat on the land for artists than there's been in a long time. The fact that there's this intense openness to creativity in the aggressive music sphere is helping make it resonate so much.
You have a close relationship with the band Drug Church. How did that develop?
I had worked with Patrick on Self Defense Family a bunch over the years. Their vibe was that they would set up shop at a studio for a weekend and write and record songs on the fly. Such Gold had taken Drug Church out on tour in 2012, and we cut a few songs over a long weekend in 2017 at The Gallery. They released "Weed Pin" to wide acclaim and decided to come back to me for the 2018 LP [Cheer]. The sessions for that LP were a huge growth experience for all of us – to find that sound that we'd all been imagining separately, together. I figured out what I love about recording aggressive pop music. Discovering wide left/right images, falling in love with chorus on bass, and room mics being diffused and slappy. We realized there's some explosive fire that's happening when we're making this music together. Working on the subsequent records has created a general sense of trust that has helped steer us since.
Going back to the pop influence, the vocals are impressively layered and very upfront.
That Cheer record is what honed my general pop sensibility, because I had to put in a ton of man hours to get the vocals to feel like that. Between writing with him and being very deliberate about cadence – not just letting it be free flow, à la Self Defense Family, we achieved something special. I can help make the pitch happen, but the energy can't be created; I have to capture that. I could have the Neve preamp one click too crunchy, or I could compress it too much. That's all fine, but if I don't have the energy there, it's just a bunch of knobs. After I get his vocal feeling great, I end up crafting a ton of harmonies and layers to support the main vocal and guide it through the song. They are often really low [in the mix] and saturated, but they help prop him up. I was busy before then, but after Cheer came out, my phone hasn't stopped ringing, so to speak.
You have a buzz going on in the rock and hardcore scene.
A huge distinction I've found between doing indie records and doing rock records is that fans and bands in our community sincerely care about who makes rock records. People are fans of producers, like they are fans of bands. Oftentimes these producers have spent time in bands that I really respect and resonate with. I've been lucky enough to make a record with Kurt Ballou [Tape Op #76] who is amazing. Bill Stevenson and Jason Livermore are incredible. I'm a fan of Taylor Young [#147], Will Putney, Adam Cichocki, Will Yip [#151], Sam Pura, and obviously Arthur [Rizk]. They're a huge part of the community, even if their focuses are in the studio.
You recently worked with Taylor Young on the upcoming Drain album [Living Proof].
Yeah, Taylor is an incredible musician and general purveyor of aggressive music. I love that guy. We worked on the last Self Defense Family LP [Have You Considered Punk Music] together, but after I mixed this new Drain record, we've been very tight. He did an amazing job producing it. I'm so particular about guitar tones, and he knocked the tones out of the park. They tracked drums at [Foo Fighters'] Studio 606, and it's awesome that the place has slowly been opening their doors to producers from our scene. It was a joy for me to mix that record.
Roland Jazz Chorus 120 Amp (Photo by Sam Retzer)
Can you explain why there's a Roland Jazz Chorus amp prominently on display?
When we first started doing the Drug Church records, we used this in an auxiliary fashion because the guitarists were using mostly Marshalls at the time. We used the Roland for the chorus laden cleans and leads, but then we ended up beefing up some of their rhythms with it feeling washy and weird. On the first record we had a Fender Pro Reverb completely blown into existence, combined with a Marshall 800 and a Fender Vibro Champ. The last two records we leaned heavily on very hot guitar signals creaming the speakers on a Jazz Chorus. If you're running a Marshall, or anything that's like a tube crunchy rock amp, you're oftentimes getting a lot of your color from the preamp and power amp stages of that. With the Jazz Chorus we're really using it more for the EQ and the resonance of the cabs. There's a lot of raucous noise that's happening on their records and that comes from a Jazzmaster with P90 pickups going through an [Ibanez] Tube Screamer, then through a ProCo Rat into the Jazz Chorus with the EQ cranked. When Nick [Cogan] gets close to the amp, it's just yelling at him, and, with the chorus on, he gets all these crazy arcade sounds happening.
"Jon has that rare thing where creativity and neurosis meet in a beneficial way. Most engineers don't have the patience for someone with a voice like mine. Jon's ability to comp vocal tracks from the actual cow flop I leave for him is a remarkable achievement. He's got a real ear for finding the one element of a track that isn't pure ass, and then maximizing its potential."
-Patrick Kindlon of Drug Church
That's your voice, layered in with Patrick's?
I'm doing the backups, yeah. But sometimes I'll get a friend or two to help sing the parts I've written so it's not all my voice. It just becomes texture, because I never want to take away from what he's doing. I want to enforce his melodies and the implicit melody of his aggression. I'll sit here with a Shure SM57 and do six layers of me a 6th and an octave below the melody. That's the kind of producer and engineer I am. I like to get my hands dirty and get into what defines a band, and what makes them unique. I'll throw a lot of vibes and ideas at them, and I can always tell when something is resonating with the room. When a mistake elevates the production, we run towards that. Same goes with any moment in making a record. We stumbled on this weird guitar thing that's working, for whatever reason, and now that's the hallmark of the guitar tone.
Don't be afraid.
Be bold. Boldness almost never falls flat when making a rock record, because that's what separates one album from another. When bands are bold about what they're trying to do, it reads to an audience; they hear it. If they're not all the way committed to the special thing they're trying to do, it won't resonate as much.
Where do you go from here?
I produced the upcoming full-length debut from Koyo [Would You Miss It?] that I'm excited about. We are already pretty deep into working on the new Drug Church record. I've been cutting a ton of records for the hardcore label Flatspot Records, and I also just worked on the upcoming Samiam record. I love being part of the process and watching the growth of our scene. I've got some "bucket list" bands I'd like to work with, but my brain doesn't really operate that way. All that matters to me is cranking away on records I believe in.
Photo by John Forrestal
jonmarkson.com
@communityoflivingthings
theanimalfarm.net
Sam Retzer is a writer, composer, and Jazz Chorustorian in Brooklyn, NY.
Jon Markson Spotify playlist
