Tony Levin is one of the masters of bass guitar and the Chapman Stick, having played with King Crimson, Peter Gabriel [Tape Op #143], James Taylor, California Guitar Trio, Paul Simon, John Lennon, Pink Floyd and many more. Jerry Marotta is a respected session drummer who's currently playing in Tony's band, previously having worked alongside him backing Peter Gabriel, along with stints with the Indigo Girls, Elvis Costello, Paul McCartney and many others.
When I first approached Tony about doing an article for Tape Op magazine he said, "I don't know how much I can contribute to the world of tech-heads." He brought in musician/engineer/producer, Marotta in as icing on the cake. What followed was an impressive amount of information regarding the recording process for Tony Levin's new CD, Pieces of the Sun. We decided to meet at Jerry's studio, "Jersville" in Woodstock, NY, an unassuming single story ranch-turned recording studio sitting at the base of the Catskill Mountains. Also at the interview were recording engineers Robert Frazza and Doug Stinger (engineer at Jersville studio).
So, what are you running here for recording?
Robert Frazza: Well, we run Digital Performer but for our recordings we are mostly running Pro Tools. We don't do a lot of sequencing so we are using the sequencer built into Pro Tools.
Tony Levin: Robert did all the engineering on the album.
You originally started the album here, correct?
TL: I'll tell you the whole process. I first started the album in my garage with nothing running and then started recording it in the worst of ways.
How so?
TL: 'Cause it's the only way I didn't manage to get any MIDI files done at the same time. I don't mean sonically. It was just an ADAT and there was no way to record any MIDI files for syncing to. After I had the piece worked out, I came to Jerry's here and re- did all the parts into Pro Tools in such a way that there was not only the sound files on it but also MIDI files. That way, if we wanted to change things — maybe put in a different synth sound — we could. Had I been able to do that at home, I would have.
RF: We mapped everything out in Pro Tools, then we loaded it in when we went to Applehead Studio.
When you went to Applehead, did you track the rhythm section together, bass, drums, guitar and such?
TL: Yeah, this one I wanted to play as a band as opposed to my last album. Just for the fun of it, for the treat.
Makes it more fun for the tracking engineer too.
Jerry Marotta: Makes it a lot quicker too.
TL: This time we put bass and drums to analog tape, whereas on the last album we had to do that later on in the mix.
You don't seem to get quite the same sonics as when you mix it down later.
TL: I was trying to save a step.
JM: Have you ever noticed a difference?
RF: No, we went to the 2" 'cause "Pillars of Fire" had 44 tracks on it.
JM: Has anybody sat down and A/B'd the two, that this was recorded all analog then transferred to digital and that was all digital transferred to analog later?
TL: Oh god, no!
I'll do that later at my mastering facility. [laughter] I still prefer the sound of analog, the way the transients hit the tape, especially with bass and drums.
TL: Most of the recording I do is all over the place, and it seems to be, not unanimous, but a lot of people want to put the drums and bass down on analog and the rest in Pro Tools. What's ironic is that it slows the session down. You have to load the tape in later, listen to all the tracks and decide which of the cuts is the keeper, etc... Anyway, after the initial tracking at Applehead, we came back here and did some overdubs.
Like vocals and such?
Everybody: No. No vocals. We don't have any vocals.
"Dog one, two, three"? [laughs]
TL: That's true, those went down live. Doug what did you do here?
Doug Stinger: We did quite a bit of editing of the tracks. That's the beauty of the computer world. Tony had songs with tons of tracks. To go into a big studio and mix the record properly — really mix it right, probably would have taken a day to do each song. But with Pro Tools you can pre-blend stuff and kind of get a leg up on the mix. That way the mix engineer is looking more at the talent than sounds — that's where the computer helps out a lot.
TL: That's where it was nice having Robert at the studio, having been working on getting the pre- sounds. He had more time working on the drum sounds, the bass amps, and microphones, more time to come up with the sounds beforehand.
I see you use the JDI direct boxes. You credited them on the album.
TL: I really like them a lot. I use them all the time. I use them on both sides. Bass goes stereo.
RF: Actually bass is 6 or 7 tracks.
TL: To begin with, I always split my signal in two. I have for a long time, so that whatever effects I'm using are only on half the signal. Because we were at a physically big studio, if I had stereo effects, I print these to two tracks along with the direct signal and the amps and such.
And the Chapman Stick too — you used the JDIs on them?
RF: Same way. They were in-line so we used them.
TL: Of course, the end sound is not mixed up that loud to say, "Okay, here's the bass, look at me with 6 channels." It just sounds like a bass on the album. We were just able to be more elaborate because Robert was able to work on the sound.
JM: And it's not like all the sounds made it to the final album.
TL: Kevin Killen [Tape Op #67] mixed the album. I like the idea of a fresh guy coming in who hasn't heard it, who hasn't been at any of the sessions.
I love his mixing — what a great engineer. Did you reference on your Linn system?
TL: No, unfortunately. We went to where Kevin wanted to mix in NYC, Shelter Island Studio, so we didn't have the luxury of A/B'ing and comparing. I like to listen on them, they give me a glimpse of what the mastering might reveal. Especially in the low end.
What mics did you use for drums?
RF: I used the Shure 98s on the toms.
The little condenser jobbies?
RF: Yeah. Let's see... Shure Beta 56s on the snare, 52 on the kick.
Is that what you'd normally use?
JM: You know, there are so many good mics you can use, D112, D12E, RE20 and the Beyer one. [Jerry goes and gets it] The 380, we used that a lot on the last album.
You used the True mic pres, on drums?
JM: Yeah. They're great — real open.
TL: And when we were at Applehead we put mics in the loft and out in the entry hall. The hall sounded great.
RF: We had 24 tracks just for bass and drums.
That's great, a luxury. With the hall and loft mics did you have to get into time aligning the tracks?
TL: Kevin did move some of the ambient stuff.
So that you wouldn't have time- smearing happening?
TL: Yeah, I remember him saying, "I'm moving this a bit."
So bleed wasn't a problem, it was your friend?
JM: Yeah, especially with everybody playing together.
And you went back to a more aggressive sound on this one as opposed to the more classical sound on Waters of Eden [Tony's previous album]?
TL: Yeah, more the writing than the sound. Waters of Eden was the music that I wanted to write at that time and I recorded it with different players, each at his own studio — which was nice. But as we started touring, it quickly became more powerful and I got enamored of being in a band situation again — with great players who are my friends. By the middle of that tour, which was two years ago, I wanted to write a heavier kind of CD and feature these specific players. Because we have a history of progressive rock, Jerry, Larry [Fast] and I had played together so much in the past [as Peter Gabriel's band], I specifically wanted to make a connection to that history in prog-rock. I didn't want to make an old- fashioned sounding record, but I wanted to connect the two and forge ahead with the new compositions. To that end I specifically found an old Peter Gabriel track, a really old one that we played on that never came out and asked Peter if we could use that. And I picked my very favorite of the old Synergy tracks, again asking Larry if we could re-record it, but really Larry played the same thing and we just added to it!
After the interview, Jerry Marotta took me over to Applehead Studio, a big, beautiful, new post and beam studio where Pieces of the Sun was tracked. While there, I saw a lot of wonderful old gear combined with all the modern tools one could ask for in today's recording environment. The console was a nice old API with 550 modules and they had a Neve Melbourne sidecar. Tracking was being done to Pro Tools with a Digi Pro- Control surface used for the mixing. All in all, it was a great day hanging with top musicians who made an average Joe like myself feel right at home. Pick up Pieces of the Sun and hear for yourself what the culmination of all these efforts sounds like. You won't be disappointed!
