Mötley Crüe's Dr. Feelgood turned 25 a few years ago. That sound helped usher in a new, mainstream respectability for metal production. What were you hearing differently from the rest of your peers to inspire you?
My production, at that point, was more to do with sonics. In the '80s, production was about sonics; about the sound. Coming from an engineering/mixing background, I went into Mötley with that in mind. With Dr. Feelgood, I was trying to make everything as big and powerful as I possibly could. There was no preconception as to what I was doing. It was more like, "Okay, let's get in there!"
Do you consider pre-production an invaluable and essential part of the record-making process?
Pre-production with me – for every band – is the same. Every time I've short-changed pre-production, it's never really worked. I try to get into a rehearsal hall with a really basic tape recorder and work on all the songs – the structure, the riffs – and find out what's missing. I work on the drum beats, guitar parts, vocal parts, and figure out what needs to be worked on. It always works; any song worth recording should stand on its own with just one mic in the room. So that's what I try to do.
Your drum sound is legendary. How did you create and capture that to tape?
Back then it was the beginnings of hip-hop, and I think bottom [end] was becoming bigger and bigger. My mic techniques that I had at that point were all ones I'd picked up from working with the different people. Then, in time, I'd adopted my own sound. Everything is derivative so, for instance, when Bob Clearmountain [Tape Op #84] was in the studio working with Bryan Adams, I'd go in at night after session, look at all the mics, and combine that with other people I had worked with through the years. It was a question of learning good mic'ing techniques. It's pretty much stayed the drum sound – without being mixed – it's pretty much what I get these days. Back then, I used a [Sennheiser MD] 421 in the kick, an [Electro-Voice] RE20, and usually a [Shure SM]57 or [Shure SM]86 on the snare. For overheads I used [Neumann U] 87s or [AKG C] 460 Bs, room mics were condensers, and I've always double-mic'd my toms; top and bottom. That's stayed the same, pretty much to today. Metallica records are slightly different. With The Black Album there was maybe another 40% of top-end on everything; I think everything became a little tighter, and there was a lot more damping. A lot of Tommy Lee's drumming, back then, I think the big shocker there was I had to open up the mics – he was such a loud hitter that he would actually compress the drums. He hit so hard that the drum would almost compress itself, so I remember I would have to back off the mics. It was really a question of trying to tame that energy, as well as getting the right distance on the cymbal mics because of the size of the cymbals. I think the big thing with the sound of the drums on these albums came in the mixing. In mixing it was pretty much Tommy pushing me, and me figuring out a way to make it happen.
You broke some new ground in relation to the hybrid way you built out Tommy Lee's drum sound on Dr. Feelgood. Could you deconstruct that for us?
By using samples in conjunction with the drum kit to get the weight and the size of the drums. Tommy would tap me on the shoulder and say, "Rockhead, could I have a little more bottom?" Of course we'd add bottom to the kick; the kick would be thumping, and there wouldn't be any bass [guitar]. Then we'd increase the bass and the definition would be gone. If you listen to the beginning of Dr. Feelgood, what I did was triggered a bass tone with an AMS [digital delay] – like one hit on the bass that's hammered. And that's with the kick drum. In mixing the drums on that record, it was a question of detuning, as well as finding the right balance between all of those drums and the guitars. The best thing I can do to describe that (and then what I did on The Black Album in comparison) was "weight." I tried to give as much weight to the drums as possible.
On the heels of Dr. Feelgood, Metallica's The Black Album took radio and MTV by storm. When you got the call to do that record, what new territory were you looking to take the band into?
Metallica told me that they sought me out to produce The Black Album based on the drum sound I'd gotten for Tommy on Dr. Feelgood.
What strengths of each player were you focusing on to get the best sound out of both their kits, and with the natural way they each hit the drums as players?
I think what Tommy always brought to Mötley was pushing the muso-quality of the band. He was always trying to push, like with the different beats. For instance, with Dr. Feelgood, things got a little funkier. In terms of the rhythms before, it had always been pretty straight ahead. All of a sudden, with Dr. Feelgood, Tommy sort of broke away from what had been their traditional drumming sound. To me, Tommy, as a drummer, is like an open nerve end, whereas [Metallica's] Lars Ulrich is probably closer to Keith Moon than anything. Tommy is a classic back-beat drummer; he is the basis and a rhythm kind of guy. He does have syncopation, but he's a rhythm machine. Whereas what makes Lars Ulrich's drumming so wonderful and so unique is that he's reactive to the music. The Black Album was him consciously trying to be more of a backbeat, keep-the-time kind of guy. Most of his fills and unique drumming all comes out of the fact that he plays to the riff of the music, much like with The Who. The Who and Metallica are very similar, because Keith Moon played to Pete Townshend's solid rhythm playing, and Lars Ulrich has always played to James Hetfield's solid rhythms. I don't believe Lars thinks in the terms that most drummers do, I think he thinks in a musical world that is unique. He plays to the riff, rather than trying to control the riff.
When you're collaborating with personalities as strong as those of Metallica's James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich, where did you look to strike a balance as production decisions were made on The Black Album?
Lars and James are equally the life-blood of Metallica; that is a marriage when it comes to Metallica. Not at all short-changing Kirk Hammett [lead guitarist]. Kirk has always been the mediator between the two, but James and Lars – when they're both strong – they're the sound of Metallica. When one or the other dominates in any situation, it changes drastically.
The "Bob Rock Guitar Sound" still reverberates in today's world. What are some of the secrets?
I think the one thing with me is to always try to get the guitar player involved, and get what he wants. I think that comes from my engineering background, and being a guitar player myself. I had some early experiences in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when I started. In some cases the producer and the engineer used to supply the drum kits and amplifiers, and say, "Here're the drums you're using. Here're the amps you're using." There were so many rules, and growing up in the industry I was thinking, "You guys have got it all wrong. You're supposed to try and capture what these guys are doing, rather than trying to force them into sounding like this or that." Right from the beginning I learned to get in sync with the guitar player and his sound. I think the big thing that I brought to both Mick Mars and James Hetfield was using multiple amps, as well as using the differences in phasing, cabs, and heads that all combined to get one sound. Different volumes on different amps, for different frequencies and clarity. That's basically what I've always done to record guitars. Multiple amps and multiple mics, and finding that sound. It's basically a process of building the sound in the studio. Some people, like Eddie Van Halen, throw one mic in front of an amp and make it work. I think sometimes you have to build that sound. I use [Shure SM]57s, [Sennheiser MD] 421s, and [Neumann U] 87s when I'm mic'ing amps. I think the big thing with amps for Mars' sound was that he used Jose [Arredondo] modified Marshall [amp heads], which John Sykes [Whitesnake] was using. I used that same amp on The Black Album, and really every album I've made since. That became a mainstay.
