Pierre de Reeder

Pierre and I had been working on different sessions on the same albums for years, so one day while in Los Angeles I popped over to meet up with him and see his cool, funky, fun spot at Kingsize North. Pierre was the bassist (and more) for Rilo Kiley, and has worked with She & Him, M Ward, Ben Gibbard, Sia, Eleni Mandell, and more. Recent session have included Fools Gold, Tim & Eric, Eddie Berman and Laura Marling, Kiefo Nilsson, and the legendary Mavis Staples (produced by M Ward).

How does the bassist for Rilo Kiley end up owning a studio?

It's that common story of the guy who always tinkered with a 4-track and all that stuff. I was always that guy. Blake from Rilo Kiley and I are old friends from middle school. We kind of inspired each other from the beginning in recording. I was always tinkering and helped him get his first recorder. We'd write songs and record. He lived up in L.A. and I was in San Diego for a while, so I recorded bands there. That's how it started with Rilo Kiley. Blake and I had always fantasized about making a band. He met Jenny [Lewis], and they were playing some coffeehouses and stuff. I'd always come by and visit. I'd record them and play bass on it or whatever. Then Blake and I recorded our first record in our house. I always recorded little bits of every record going forward. It was always a fun thing and my dream to possibly own a studio someday. The opportunity came up about six years or so ago. I've done it ever since.

What led to this being connected to Kingsize Soundlabs?

Dave Trumfio is a friend. I originally partnered in here with Kenny Woods, and then he became a little less involved. I asked Dave (who I recorded my solo record with at Kingsize) if he'd be interested in partnering in. Dave loves a good studio opportunity, so he was in, and it's been great. It was also in conjunction with my friend Curt Anderson, who's my real gear partner. He's one of these treasure troves of loving gear and collecting it. Lots of odds and ends are his. This board is his.

The history of that's crazy, right? JJ Cale's console and tape deck — from when?

'72 is the lore. I've tried to track down what was recorded on it. We finally drummed up a picture of JJ Cale's engineer here in the Valley from like '75. The picture I have doesn't reveal anything about the space. You see the engineer's face, a little bit of the tape machine, and a little bit of this board.

That's crazy. It's Auditronics 501. They were building them in Memphis, and some of the early ones were out of Spectrasonics parts.

Totally, yeah. We've been tinkering with this and getting it in the best shape it's been in. We pulled all the modules to try to figure out. Most are all originals. Some of these have 301 pres, and others have modifications that came later. It's kind of a mix on these, and I'm not quite sure which the Spectrasonics stuff is.

When you and Blake recorded the first Rilo Kiley record [ Take Offs and Landings ], where'd you do that?

At our house, at a place in Echo Park.

You had enough room to do drums and stuff?

Yeah. We had a living room, a little weird office thing for a control room. We both had these [Tascam] 688 cassette recorders, those crazy, over-built 8-track cassette things. Some of the first stuff that we did was all on those. We eventually got a MOTU. We got some mics and just did it.

Did you mix at home?

Yeah, I mixed most of it and Blake mixed a song or two.

Then on the next records, you ended up working with other engineers at other studios?

Yeah, for sure. Before Take Offs and Landings there was an EP where we did go into a real studio for some of it. The EP was done half at home and half in studios. We did Sound City, Cello (it had just turned to Cello, in the Pet Sounds room). The ones in the "the studio" we did with Dave Schiffman. We had also done some other demos even earlier at a studio called The Sandbox. Anyway, the next record after Take Offs we recorded with Mike Mogis . We did two records with him in Lincoln, Nebraksa.

At the original studio he had there?

Yeah.

How'd you guys settle on Mike?

That was all through Saddle Creek friends. We did a tour with The Good Life and met Tim Kasher and Conor [Oberst] and all those people. We were like, "All right, let's make a record with Mike." We drove out there one weekend and spent six weeks plus. He's always had great ears and a great space to record in. That place at Presto was a great room, too. It had all sorts of stuff. He was always interested in trying new gear. He'd get new toys in the mail and set it up for us to try out. My experience with his production style for us, and I'd assume with other people, is that he'd take what you did and slather it with all of his own stuff, like awesome pedal steel. He'd play on it, he'd add his instrumentation to create a sound which was cool.

You said you were also working on bits and pieces of records along the way too.

Yeah, I'd always kind of be a second recording guy in those situations. I'd do a lot of vocals with Jenny and stuff like that. Blake's a proficient recordist as well. We always had B rooms, so we'd make use of that and do stuff at the same time. All of us knew a little about what we're doing and it enabled us to accomplish a lot more.

What was the history of this space?

Yeah, like I said, I had an opportunity to partner in with Kenny Woods. I brought my collection of home studio stuff. I'd done half my record at home and had been amassing stuff. We joined forces, and I came in with all this enthusiasm. It was just this back room then.

To clarify, this is a rehearsal studio, and you moved in to the back room at the end of the hall.

Yeah. This is the only proper, built-out studio here.

So you had a band right next to you, which is now your lounge.

Yeah.

Whoa.

Luckily, thanks to the neighboring business, no one was allowed to practice until after 6 p.m. It was troublesome, but not too much. I came in there with fresh eyes and wanted to get the neighboring room as soon as it became available. We asked/bribed that band to move to another room that became available, and then another room became available and we moved them out of there. I got Dave Pearlman [Pearlman Microphones] to move into that room. He was building his mics there for a long time. As rooms became available, I'd gobble them up and get like-minded people in there.

So someone else owns and runs this space? You're just leasing all these spaces?

I just kind of facilitate. Our landlord has been super cool about letting me bring these people in and change the whole demographic. He's used to rock bands or whatever, but rock bands are super fickle, they can't pay the rent, and so we've been selling it as stability. "You'll have all these professional, dependable people, you won't get complaints from the neighbors, etc." He's been super cool in letting us transform the place into what it is now. He recently worked with us to help relocate the very last band, so now the whole building is exclusively a recording and production facility. We even have an in-house mastering room now.

That's awesome.

I'm excited. It's a very triumphant moment.

It's kind of hearkening back to the old studio model of people in separate rooms working on stuff and bumping in to each other in the hallways. Like Aaron Espinoza , Rob Schnapf and Kingsize have the spaces in Eagle Rock.

Totally. There's like a rock block, and then there's an adjacent building where Mark Chalecki has his mastering studio. It's a bunch of people wandering around making music. It's a cool community. I'm glad that this place is turning into something like that as well.

What projects have happened in here so far?

I did the most of the Jenny & Johnny record. Mike Mogis did a few songs as well.

I bought it on iTunes, so I didn't get to read any credits.

That was super fun. I did Johnathan Rice's record. The first and second Big Harp records from Saddle Creek. They're super awesom. Ben Harper did a record in here, I did a single with Vampire Weekend, I did some of Ben Gibbard's solo record [ Former Lives ], Death Cab For Cutie came in separately and did a week of stuff for their last full record [ Codes and Keys ]. All the She & Him stuff we haven't really done here, because I only have a 16-track and they always want 24. We did some overdubs here though. I had Jim Keltner come in and do some stuff. He's an old friend of JJ Cale's. He loved it.

He was probably happy to see the old stuff still being used.

Totally.

It must be insane recording someone like Keltner, a guy with that level of chops?

Yeah, it's all of that. You become neutral and professional. Especially for the kind of stuff we were doing, like this last She & Him record that we did, Classics . I did it at the other Kingsize. We had a 20 piece orchestra with Jim. The thing Matt [Ward] was referencing was like Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald. I delved in and Wes Dooley was awesome, giving me his whole ribbon mic collection. The orchestra was just eight mics total, the majority of things coming from three [RCA] 44s against the wall. There was Keltner and Zooey [Deschanel] in their rooms but with the doors open. It was just all kinds of great sound bleeding. For that, it's amazing to see a pro like that interact and be both confident and humble.

Playing to the song.

Yeah. Clear idea, a real pro, and a real awesome guy.

So that was Matt's idea to get an old-school, live on the floor record?

Yeah. He sent me a couple of references and asked me how we could do it. I thought it was awesome, because I've always wanted to have the ability to have an orchestra and do all that stuff in a live room. I really sunk my teeth into it and researched how they did it in the old days. There was that connection with AEA Microphones, so I wrote them and told them I was doing this. Sammy [Rothman] responded and had heard about it through She & Him's management. Anyway, Wes was super on-board to do it with all ribbons, minimal mic'ing, and they got really excited about it. It also gave me a lot of lead time to plan out. It was really fun to tinker and let the ideas evolve. I went to AEA and Wes not only gave me tons of R84s, but the original ones [meaning the first ones Wes made] and his actual RCA 44s, his Model A, personal collection, and the KU4 - a reproduction of this other RCA mic that was a cardioid with all these chambers in the bottom. It's a super stage ribbon mic. Anyway, it was perfect. I had this vision, this plot, we set everything up with the orchestra, just a couple of mics close to Jim, but we never really used them, just the overhead and front. For Zooey, I had a 44 out here and a [Neumann] U87 kind of Ella Fitzgerald style. She'd [Ella] actually do a 47 and a 77, or some ribbon and a condenser. Whatever. It all just turned out great. It was one of those things where I set some preliminary levels and when it went, when they hit the first string, it was almost perfect. It was kind of ridiculous.

That's crazy. How many channels were being recorded?

It was 24-track tape, but let's see. There were only eight in the orchestra. Three across. Left, right, and center: a 44, a 44, and then the KU4. For each section... there was first violin, second violin, cellos, and stand-up bass. Each one of those had a single R84 over it. On the stand-up bass's, I had one spot mic on each. But that was it. Then a stereo overhead ribbon, the R88A over the drums. In front I had a 47. Then there were a couple spot mics. Between all that, it was only 14 or 15, maybe 16 tracks for basics.

That's crazy. So live on the floor, you're getting a lot of stuff on those first takes.

Yeah. It was the whole thing, including a live lead vocal. Very little overdubbing on the orchestral tracks.

This is at Kingsize? How big is that studio?

Yeah. The tracking room is about that same size as the one here at Kingsize North. I'd guess around 700 square feet. This one has the interesting chunk out for the stairs, which that doesn't have, and ceiling is a little higher here. I really plotted it out and had to convince everyone we could do it there. It worked out great.

How many days were you tracking like that? With that many people, it's going to be expensive.

It was only one full orchestra day. There was another day or two with just Jim and a different stand-up bass player, as well as Matt and Zooey.

More intimate songs or something?

Yeah. I think we did five full orchestra. Something like that.

Did you continue to do all the recording on that record?

Yeah.

Did you mix it?

No. Tom Schick did. I've been super happy with everything that's come back from him. Matt might be coming in next week to do something.

It's always such a treat to work with Matt Ward.

I love it. Often it's just me and him. I've done some of the M Ward stuff too, but yeah, it's usually just me, him, and Zooey. Sometimes I'll end up playing bass. I'll find myself sitting next to him on the floor with a tambourine under a blanket. We'd just try stuff. It's not precious. I love the energy of the first take that he does as well. It's not rehearsed. It's whatever you get. I'm big on that as well. Someone comes up with a part on the fly, and that's where the magic can be. Not always, but often. He brings in people who he trusts and wants to get their instinct. It's awesome. If you need to find the notes, that's cool. Then I'll capture what your first instinct is.

A lot of your work comes from all the stuff you've done before, different connections. Word of mouth, I'd assume?

Completely. Now I'm the "friend in town with a studio." I've worked with a lot of friends, which is great. By and large, it's that whole circle of friends and talented people who I know.

They'll keep you busy. Have you had artists seek you out due to records you've worked on?

Yeah, a little bit. Not entirely. I don't get streams of phone calls or anything like that. Some people I read in Tape Op are like, "Yeah, after this record, I just get calls from Sweden." I guess I'm not at that level or that publicized yet!

Maybe we should do an interview with you and get you in a magazine.

That's a good idea! Do you know anybody?

When you've got someone coming to you, do you have specific ways you like to work? How do you initiate collaboration?

It depends obviously if I'm producing it or just recording it. For producing, I love to go to their spot, hang out with them, and establish that trust so that I can voice opinions. I love that process of producing a song, helping arrange it, and all that stuff before coming in and all of that. By and large, that happens in here on the fly all the time. I probably just record with that little producer brain in the back more than anything. That always evolves. I don't know what the process is. I'm very fortunate to work with people who I really like the music of. It's always a pleasure to record and be part of that. I just like to get to genuinely be enthusiastic about suggestions and stuff. Just that flow and being in the captain's chair, being able to be objective on stuff, it's awesome. I guess my process is always to be a friend and collaborator first. I like to get to that sense where I can be trusted, they trust me, I trust them, that way it's an easy conversation behind the board.

When you're working on sessions, do you have set hours?

I do have to play it by ear, but I prefer to be normal working man's hours. I have kids and all that. I try to start at 10 or 11 and finish by 8 or 9. A lot of people I work with like that as well. But there are other things that have to go from 1 to 1 and that kind of stuff.

Someone's leaving town or on the road, hitting the road, whatever.

Yeah. I prefer an 8 or 10 hour day. If everyone comes in and it's not arduous, some people can go 14 or 15 hours a day and work forever. But it's just whatever.

It doesn't matter how much I like the artist or the music. I still need time to go home and relax.

Yeah. This is your profession. For a band that's coming in for a week or a few days, it's like, "Man, I'm putting all my money into this thing." It's a hard balance. But again, I'm fortunate to not work with too much of that. It's more people who are seasoned and just want a relaxed day in the studio to get done what they need to.

I find that when people have had more experience or have been in the studio more, they know that sort of a frantic eagerness isn't necessarily going to help the process along.

Yeah, for sure.

Did you work on the She & Him Christmas record, too? [ A Very She & Him Christmas ]

Yes I did. We did that at Kingsize in Eagle Rock. Then we did the one that you and I worked on. Volume Three was at Sunset Sound Factory.

It's kind of interesting that even though you have a space, you're hopping around. Is that due to the sizes of rooms and amenities the artists want?

Yeah. Again, it's just places they want to work at. Like Matt wants to do everything on tape, and I don't have a 24-track. Those are both great studios. It's fun to go other places. I love working here. I know it backwards and forwards, but it's certainly fun to go somewhere else and experience something new.

Is there ever a learning curve for you when you're jumping from place to place?

Sure. All the patches... there's usually an assistant at those places who can patch stuff, so that's awesome. Yeah, once you have somebody who can just route the stuff for you, the rest is pretty easy and intuitive as you know. Yeah, I wouldn't want to have to figure out patchbays. Some are so crazy. On this one, I printed things out to make everything labeled very precisely. It's color coded so it's very user friendly for people just coming in.

Do you have other people to come in and work if you have a busy project elsewhere?

Yeah, we hire it out to independent producers.

Who are some of the engineers and producers who have worked out of here?

Chris Walla from Death Cab , Danny Kalb, Paul Fox, Greg Kurstin, Ted Hutt, Tommy Stinson, Ethan Allen, some other people. I have it all on the website. Ethan just came in the other day.

What's your workflow with tape and consoles? I assume you're using Pro Tools?

Yeah, it's Pro Tools. Five or ten percent of people use tape. Luckily it still gets used. Most of the time it's Pro Tools. That machine we got in great shape. It really sounds good. 16 tracks.

Is it an 1100?

Yeah, an Ampex MM-1100.

Yeah, 16-track, 2-inch is the shit. I just did a record and all of it stayed on that. It's really fun. It just sounds right.

Yeah. It's great. 16-track is limiting for some people. For workflow, I always have it simultaneously into Pro Tools and that. There's always a simultaneous take printed digitally just to back up to. After you can dump it in and do overdubs.

Do you mix with the console?

Sometimes. I'm pretty hybridized. I really like the hybrid approach. A lot in the box, some outboard stuff. Most of the sound I get is trapped going in, and I mix in the box. That's kind of the final frontier with this board, getting the quad buss nice and clean. There are some ghosts in here for sure. Little RF frequencies at certain parts of the fader, crackles, getting the master quad bus module... we just can't figure it out. My partner Curt and I are always tinkering. I shy away from it a little bit, but I'm ambitious to get it in perfect shape. This has only been here for a year. Now it's in a place where I can track through it a lot.

What do the preamps sound like?

Really good. Just really natural. They're a really good compliment to the other stuff out here. They may be a little bit softer or slower than the SSLs, so that lends a natural sound. The EQs are really good, all inductors and sweet. I really like it. I rarely use it exclusively. I love unmatched stuff, so it's cool. There are some really fun things like these here. These are [Langevin] AM16 modules from Capitol Records. They have the Capitol stamp on them, and these are the tube versions, the 5116s. These are among the best sounding pres that I've ever used. They're the tube version of the AM16s. They're great. These are Quad-Eights.

Yeah, is that the inductor EQ?

I'm not sure. I was just hanging out with Ken Hirsch yesterday. He'd come over to check out some old stuff Curt has to see if there's some good stuff. He was saying that he had this thousand square foot warehouse with just piles of stuff.

Are all the instruments and keyboards here yours?

Yeah, all between mine's and Curt's.

That's always nice to have instruments for people.

That's one of the things I've loved about all the studios that I've gone to. I wanted to have that and more. Just come in and use everything that's here. So many bands come in and never use their drums. Some people bring their own, but most will use the house kit I have set up. Other stuff here friends will just loan and leave at the studio.

They can come grab it if they need it.

Yeah. Nine times out of ten, people use our stuff. I wanted it to be a place where if you didn't have anything of your own, you could come here and record everything.

That's always a good plan. A lot of mics are already set up. That's kind of an unusual thing these days.

Yeah. I guess that's an old studio habit. For me, it's a personal use space as well, either pure personal use or me recording. Why put it away? I'll put covers on, and any guest engineer can certainly move it. I ask in advance and tell them I have stuff set up. Again, nine times out of ten they'll say it's awesome but just swap out a mic or two. It's great. It makes things easier and faster. For me, I can record myself playing drums. All I have to do is turn it on. It'll be ready to go.

Have you been working on another solo record at all?

In the same capacity that I did my last one. It took me five or six years to do that one. I'm on track to having that timeline, if not longer on this one. It's the irony of having your own studio; you record so much less of your own stuff. But I have maybe half of a record written right now. I get a lot of spurts of inspiration and a lot of spurts of non-inspiration. I'm chipping away at it.

It's hard. I started with a home studio just for my own band to use. Pretty soon, the band got put on hold. If I walk into my studio, it's like, "Maybe I should clean stuff up or do some maintenance." Grabbing a guitar seems like the last thing.

Yeah, it's just like you said. I'll get an idea and want to come in here to work on the song. I'll come in and totally forget that a mic is weird and that there's a session the next day. Three hours have gone by, and then I have to pick up my kids.

It's the curse, I think.

It's good. I love to do all of that tinkering stuff too, and I do get to record my own stuff here and there. I like being a shopkeep and keeping everything in working order. That's one of my personal goals, to make sure that everything here works. If it doesn't, it needs to be clearly labeled that it's having trouble.

As you said, you've gone to other studios. Every time something's broken or there's a strange workaround, it just impedes the session so much. It's frustrating. Broken stuff, confusing stuff; who needs it? We're here to make records.

Yep, we are. Shall we make one?

Yeah, let's get going.

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