Since 1985 Vince Clarke and vocalist Andy Bell have helmed the group Erasure. Vince also was an original member of Depeche Mode, the music behind the duo Yazoo (or Yaz in the U.S.), remixed many songs for others, plus carried on many collaborations. Photographer Brian T. Silak and I had the distinct honor of meeting with Vince at his Brooklyn, NY, home in 2021 for an interview and photo shoot. Soft spoken, with a razor sharp wit and typical British sense of humor so dry that we almost missed it at turns, Vince gave generously of his time as Brian and I visited his fascinating home recording space. As Brian set up his lighting equipment, Vince played tour guide at The Cabin Studio, and then discussed his career as a founding luminary of synth pop music.
Iāve heard your favorite artist of all time is Paul Simon, yet your music is in a completely different direction. What have you learned from his work?
The reason that I liked Paul Simon, especially in the beginning when I was in my teens, was that I could relate to the songs inasmuch as I could play them on guitar. They werenāt technically difficult. Iām not a very good guitarist. What attracted me to those songs was the simplicity of the arrangements. I think I carried that through with Erasure. We just happen to use more complicated equipment. Itās basically choruses, bridges, and verses.
Thequietus.com published your list of favorite albums. Among your selection were The Human League and Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark. How were you influenced by the production styles of these early synth bands?
Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark is interesting, because the first [self-titled] was a very simple album. Itās very simply produced, and I liked that. The Human League I loved because itās all about synths and science fiction. Iām not sure what else was on the list. Pink Floyd, probablyā¦
ā¦The Dark Side of the Moon. You had Kraftwerkās Computer World; David Bowieās Heroes; Philip Glassā Glassworks.
Most of the music that I like is song-based. Philip Glass isnāt one of those.
What drew you to his compositions, or to that particular collection of his work?
I think a friend recommended it to me. I started experimenting with doing very repetitive sequences in that style, for B-sides mostly, but using synthesizers instead.
You also mentioned Genesisā A Trick of the Tail.
I think Pink Floydās [The Dark Side Of The Moon] is my favorite album of all time. It still sounds amazing. A Trick of the Tail was the first album that I ever bought. I managed to get enough money to buy a hi-fi stereo system, and Iād never heard stereo before. When I was growing up, radio was mono. This stereo system had two white speakers, and I bought A Trick of the Tail and could not believe the sound of it. I stuck my head between those two speakers ā like wearing headphones ??ā and listened to it over and over again.
The first single that you bought as a kid was āThis Town Aināt Big Enough for Both of Usā by Sparks.
Sparks was when I first took an interest in music ā not as a musician, but as a music fan. I was playing music, certainly, but I had no intention to become a musician. When Sparks released that single it was on Top of the Pops. It was a big thing in the UK. My mum had bought a radiogram [radio/phonograph player], and I played the record so much that the grooves disappeared.
What made you shift from being a music fan to thinking, āIād like to make musicā?
My moment was when I saw The Graduate. I heard the soundtrack, and I couldnāt believe it. I went out and bought the songbook straightaway and learned all of the songs. They were songs that I could play. Up to that point, Iād watched Top of the Pops and bands like Slade or whoever. The production was so complicated ā not something that one thinks they could ever do. I had no idea how they did it. But when I heard these songs from that movie, I bought the songbook. I didnāt sound anything like it ā [but] I was close! I thought, āThis is what I could do. I could maybe become a musician.ā It wasnāt anything mysterious or expensive. I imagined that people would go into these magic studios and come out with these amazing records. Those things were inaccessible to me ā but not with Paul Simon.
You came full-circle with Sparks in 1994 when you remixed their song, āWhen Do I Get to Sing āMy Way.āā In addition, youāve worked with Martyn Ware of The Human League and Heaven 17. What has it been like to turn heroes into collaborators?
Well, it doesnāt happen very often, but itās happened to me a few times. Itās pretty amazing. I remember meeting Sparks, because we met in their hotel and had afternoon tea. They were just... Sparks. You know what I mean? [makes funny facial expression] They were really nice. Martyn Ware produced an album for Erasure [I Say I Say I Say]. That was the first time I got to know him. I spent the whole time while we recorded asking him questions about how heād gotten a particular sound [with The Human League]. He didnāt remember.
From what I understand, when Andy Bell auditioned as Erasureās vocalist, you were a hero to him at the time. Was it challenging to become an equal collaborator?
Well, our relationship was quite awkward in the beginning. Not for that reason, but because he was just so shy. He wouldnāt say a word in the studio. Me and the people I was with, the engineer and producer at the time, we would try to make jokes and get him to loosen up a bit ā to help him feel at ease. But it took a long time for that to happen. It was the same when we performed live for the first time, because he didnāt move when he was up on stage. He was glued to the mic stand. But once he started moving, he couldnāt stop... [laughs]
You have an amazing home studio here. This, and the previous incarnation that you had in Maine, were both called The Cabin. What are your favorite aspects of working from home? I would imagine itās been a godsend during this pandemic.
Itās weird. Now that Iām recording nearly everything at home, I miss going to studios. I miss the socialization the most.
Do you bring in an engineer here?
Iām still on my own. It does get lonely, to be honest. Obviously, at this stage of the pandemic, there isnāt much choice. When Andy and I finish a record, we tend to get it mixed outside. Part of that is because I want to get out and meet an engineer and learn something new. I want to hear it in a different room, and get someone elseās perspective on it as well, which is always very important. The last record we did was mixed in London, and we did the vocals in Atlanta [Georgia].
That was The Neon?
Yeah. The record previous to that [World Be Gone] was mixed in L.A. It was nice for me to go to these places and spend a week or ten days working with somebody else. I think Iād go insane if I had to do everything here.
I interviewed Joe Henry [Tape Op #129] a few years ago. He had a home studio which was very integrated into his home life. When youāre working here, are your wife and teenage son around? Do they come down and encourage you?
Theyāre not interested. My son [Oscar] goes down there occasionally. Now heās making his own records, so he can take over. Iāll get kicked out, and then he can do his thing. My wife [Tracy Hurley Martin] never goes down there, and I never play her anything.
With the Erasure albums, how much sequencing, writing, and recording is done here versus how much time is spent meeting Andy elsewhere to do vocals or to mix?
Well, the writing is wherever weāre at. Heās got a place in Florida. Iām not going to go down there now, of course. But I might go down to Florida and spend a week. He might come up to New York and spend a week here in the studio. With the last record, we did some writing in London since we were both there. Thatās the basic writing. We get the chords together, get the arrangements, and get the melodies. That could be done anywhere weāre at. Then Iāll come back to my studio and start working on the music, and heāll go away and start working on the lyrics. The last few records, Iāve pretty much recorded all the music downstairs. Andy will find another studio to do his vocals. Iām not really geared up to do the vocals here, nor do I like recording them particularly. Itās too stressful.
You work Logic Pro, but all of your synths continue to be controlled by CV/gate [control voltage/gate synchronization /sequencing], instead of MIDI, which youāve said you feel is more stable and locks in better.
In the beginning, I didnāt enjoy working with MIDI. It was very convenient, obviously, but I had problems with the timing. Now Iāve got Logic and it doesnāt really matter. Once I record something, it doesnāt matter if I record it via MIDI or using CV/gate. The reason I use CV/gate is because most of the synths here use CV/gate.
Theyāre older, pre-MIDI synthesizers.
I canāt get [MIDI] retrofits for a lot of them. Now, with the advent of Logic, Iām really into timing. Iām not a āfeelā person. [laughs] I like things to be in time.
So, for you, CV/gate provides a more rock-solid feel than MIDI?
It did, initially. Against early MIDI, we could see it. We used scopes and saw the MIDI drifting; but with CV/gate, it would be locked in.
Once MIDI became accessible in the mid-ā80s, was it challenging to continue to work with CV/gate?
Yes. Itās easier [to use MIDI], especially for playing live. It was a godsend, really. I could trigger ten synthesizers on stage. We did a record called Chorus in Hamburg. That was when I went back to using CV/gate sequencers. I decided that for the tour, for that record, I would use live CV/gate sequencers, which was a nightmare from a practical level. It worked really well, but the programming took me forever, working with a [Roland] MC-4 [MicroComposer music sequencer]. Have you ever worked with one? Itās numbers. You put everything in 12s. You dream in 12s. Your CV, your gate, and all the rest. I had all the information on my MIDI sequencer, and I had to get that into the MC-4. The MC-4 only triggers four synthesizers at once, and there was a switching system. There was a way of doing it where two MC-4s could control eight synthesizers, and I could switch from one to the next. The CV/gate in one instance would play on a [Sequential Circuits] Prophet-5 and then it would go over to the [Sequential Circuits] Pro-One or something. Iād program all that. It was all numbers, and it drove me insane. But Iām very nerdy ā I wanted to do it.
You were featured in an episode of Rockschool, the ā80s BBC television program, standing in front of a Fairlight CMI. You were typing on the keyboard, showing how you laid in sequences. You were like a kid in a candy store. Have you found that you have gravitated towards synths over the years because of the programming aspect and the various ways that you can delve into the computer side?
Absolutely. The revolution in electronic music didnāt happen when they invented the [Yamaha] DX7 or the Prophet-5. It happened when they invented the sequencer. It enabled me to program something I could only dream of, which is what I do. I imagine it, and then I make it happen.
Most of your synths donāt have the ability to store patches. How important is the idea of using non-programmable, older synthesizers where youāre creating a new sound each time?
Itās not important. I donāt worry too much about repeating myself, because I know I do it. Whatās great about having a synthesizer with no memory is that there are no rules. You can get a big modular system, like a Roland System 700. Thereās nothing that I can do on that synthesizer that will break it, unless I start messing about with the power at the back. I donāt know what itās necessarily going to do. I have an idea of generally how they work, but if I turn a knob here and connect a filter to an envelope, or whatever it might be, or FM two stages together, who knows whatās going to happen? I love that. I love the tactile-ness of it. I spend too much time with a mouse. My son spends too long with his finger on a tablet. [With synthesizers,] I love that two-handedness. Say, for instance, that youāve got a fairly simple synthesizer like a Pro-One. There are only so many knobs on it. But if you really think about it, itās infinite sounds. Iāll start with a sound in my head, and then itāll sound nothing like it, because I donāt know how to get that sound. Iāll think, āOh, thatāll be a brass part.ā Iāll do something and then end up with a sound like an organ.
What have been some of your favorite synths over the years? The Pro-One has appeared on most of the Erasure albums.
Itās been on every one, yeah. I love the Roland [SYSTEM-]100M. I love the [Roland] JUNO-60.
Did you use that on the Yazoo albums?
All of them, actually. Thatās pretty much on every album that weāve ever done. Since then, I bought the [Roland JUNO]-106. My first modular was the Roland 100M. I bought that new as well.
Do you have any suggestions for people who are interested in sound design, sequencing, or song composition using synthesizers?
Avoid the presets, thatās for sure. I use soft synthesizers mostly for programming, but also for composition. Iām not precious. If Iāve got an Apple Loop [in GarageBand or Logic Pro] and I can make it sound like something interesting, something thatās unique, then why not? It doesnāt matter what tools you have. Itās about your ideas. Maybe youāve got a [Dubreq] Stylophone. Just because you havenāt got a Synclavier doesnāt mean you canāt make a great song. Thatās the important thing to bear in mind. Itās always about the idea and the song.
You have all of this technology, yet you prefer to write organically on acoustic instruments ā at least with Andy Bell for Erasure.
Andy and I have written a lot of records just using guitar or acoustic piano, to see if the song works. If youāre working too hard in the studio on a song, itās not a really good song.
Is it safe to say thatās the underlying reason why you prefer to keep it simple during the songwriting phase?
Itās one of the reasons. Also, itās much faster. I can change direction much quicker if Iāve got an acoustic guitar or piano. Iām not worrying about programming bass lines. If Iām playing guitar and Andy says, āLetās change keys,ā Iāll just put a capo on.
Was there a time when your songwriting was more directly tied to technology?
Remixing obviously, because the song is written already. With Depeche Mode, in the very early days the songs that we had were the songs that we played live. I think I only wrote eight songs for that project.
How has the production process for Erasure albums and singles changed over the years from 1986ās Wonderland to 2020ās The Neon?
I think, sadly, itās gotten more complicated. Everybody says that, but itās true.
Because of the equipment involved, or because of the logistics of the record label?
Itās my head. Itās quite difficult to come up with a song with just three chords. Itās hard to accept that itās any good. When I start off and itās all I can do, I think, āThatās amazing! Bloody hell, thatās right! E, A, and B ā Thatās incredible!ā Then you discover F-sharp minor. Everythingās a discovery. But when youāve done that for a while, you donāt get those surprises so much.
As it becomes second nature for each generation to have more technology, do you think that leads to some expectation that we need to use that gadgetry all the time?
I donāt feel that. Andy and I did a whole tour with just acoustic instruments, for instance. That was enjoyable. I have no problem not using the technology. I just like to use it ā because itās fun!
Erasureās The Neon was released in August 2020. What was it like to release a new album during that stage of the pandemic?
Fortunately, we wrote, recorded, and mixed the entire album just before the pandemic. We were in the U.K. mixing at the end of January. I flew back to the States, and Iāve been stuck here ever since. Andyās got a place in London. Heās married to this guy [Stephen Moss] in Florida, and he hasnāt seen him since the pandemic started. Thatās almost two years! Obviously, we did promotions and interviews over Zoom, and that was fine. We had a bit of fun. Andy and I would do these events together, and we probably will continue doing them. Heās a great talker. He wonāt stop! We had these āStaying in with Erasureā [live online chats]. It wasnāt about anything in particular. We werenāt promoting anything. It would just be him telling me his troubles. It was really nice. We did a few of those. I think the fans really liked that. Every time we did a new one, Andyās beard would get bigger and bigger.
VeryRecords
I was curious to know how record labels worked. I wanted to find out what distribution meant. What PR meant. I wanted to make it as hands-on as possible. Very limited releases of artists that I really like who are electronic. Reed & Carolineās Buchla & Singing was the first record that we released. Reed Hays does music for TV. Heād written some songs for his son. A friend of a friend knew of these songs. Reed played me the songs and said, āLetās make a record,ā and thatās how it came about. Since then, heās become a very good friend. We meet twice a month to do an internet radio program called The Synthesizer Show out of a studio in Staten Island. We play records we like, and then we talk rubbish. Reed really knows his synthesizers, and Iām the counter to him. Itās so much fun. intergalacticspiral.com
veryrecords.com
Youāve been affiliated with Daniel Miller [Tape Op #110] and Mute Records, from Depeche Mode onward. Has the relationship gone through various phases as your career unfolded?
Itās been the same. Daniel and I are very close. When I first met him, I was 19 and he was 28. In the very beginning, we didnāt know anything about how records were made, or studios; nothing. Then we got to know all that stuff. Over the years, Iāve gotten to know Daniel as a person rather than just the boss. You know that thing about how when someoneās ten years older than you, that ten years gets less and less as time goes by? Now we have an on-the-same-level relationship.
Did you learn a bit from Eric Radcliffe making the Yazoo records? [Upstairs at Ericās & You and Me Both]
I asked a lot of questions of Eric Radcliffe. I was very interested in the studio and how it worked. He was kind enough to show me. Youāre confronted with a thousand buttons ā āWhat does this one do? What does that one do?ā I learned a lot from him. Iām sure that Iāve taken techniques from all of the producers and engineers Iāve worked with. Iāve learned tricks, for sure. But I havenāt worked with an engineer and thought, āLetās rip that off.ā Itās more subconscious.
Youāve remixed upwards of 60 songs for other artists, beginning with the Happy Mondays āWrote for Luckā in 1988. How do you view yourself as a remixer?
The only decisions I make are in the beginning, where I decide whether I want to do it or not. What determines that is whether or not I think I can add something to the track or bring something out in the track thatās not there. I get sent quite a lot of remix requests. I listen to them and think, āThatās perfect. What would you want me for?ā When I do a remix, Iām in that group of people who will tend to take the song and strip it down to just the vocal.
Youāre taking the a cappella lead vocal and starting with that?
Mostly. Or sometimes Iāll take something thatās in the track ā some sound, or some guitar part for instance ā and start messing about with that. Not just to be different, but to make it sound different. Not just for the sake of it, [but] because I think it works with my interpretation of that track. But I have to hear it in my head. I have to hear, āOh, yeah; I could do something quite interesting with that.ā A lot of the time, the techniques or the tricks that I do with remixing, they are also incorporated into the Erasure recordings.
Whatās Vince Clarke Circuits? You helped design some synth modules: the VCM20, the VCS20, and The Imaginator [VCX-378].
They are all hardware. My younger brother is a genius, and heās into projects and building devices. I wanted a unit to keep a particular synthesizer in tune that was very difficult to do, so he came up with a piece of hardware that did it. After that, he came up with another piece of hardware, The Imaginator, that was a half-random sequencer. Thatās all been done since and before, but this particular sequencer was a songwriting tool. Say you want to write a new bass line, and youāve got 12 notes to work with. Pick the notes that you want to use for the bass line, and then run it random. It comes up with various patterns, various timings, and if you like one, you can save it and then build [a new song].
So, itās almost like a song idea generator?
Yes, but most useful for bass lines.
What do you think of electronic pop music and EDM today?
I do like some of it. I made a record with Martin Gore [VCMG] that was a techno-ish, minimalist [instrumental] record, and it got me into listening to [EDM]. I didnāt know anything about it. Then I started doing a little bit of DJ-ing. It hasnāt influenced my songwriting, though.
Over the years, what collaborations have been truest to your personal creative drive and goals?
Erasureās number one, actually.
Are there any others over the years that have resonated with you at a deeper level?
No. I think Andy Bell is the one. Weāve been together for a long, long time. We have a really great relationship, which is the heart of Erasure. Itās not even the music. Itās actually how he and I get on.
When you come up with a new musical idea, do you tend first to think, āIs this an Erasure song? What would Andy think of this?ā
Always.
Once the pandemic lets up, what do you look forward to doing?
Well, I havenāt seen Andy since two years ago. Itās been two years! Itāll be nice to see him in person.
erasureinfo.com
Bren Davies is a singer and cartoonist living in Brooklyn, NY.
brendandavies.com
Brian T. Silak is a professional photographer born and raised in Jamaica Queens, NY, and based in the New York City area. His work has appeared in numerous publications over the last 20 years.
briansilak.com
Prior to the start of the Pandemic, Bren and Brian launched a new video podcast interview series called On The Making Of. Their pilot episode features none other than Tape Opās
Larry Crane.
