What is your onstage setup for the Deltron 3030 tour?
I’m using a [Native Instruments] Maschine+ through a REmindEЯ delay by Enjoy Electronics. I haven’t used that delay in the studio, but it’s good for live performance. I also have an ARP 2600, a Persephone ribbon controller, a Korg KM-2 mixer with a built-in Kaoss pad, and a Bullfrog from Erica Synths.
You bring the ARP 2600 on the road?
Oh, yeah. It’s more for bleepy, washy, up and down things. It’s a good unit to put an accent on the one, to fade things out, or provide movement. I use the Persephone for melodic counter melodies. Since it’s a slide controller with no keys, I’m able to bend into notes. The REmindEЯ has built-in filters, multi-tap delay, reverb, and lots of options to manipulate the sound. None of these synths were on the original Deltron 3030 album, but the newer synths offer more flexibility and freedom. That album was made with a lot of samples and synths that aren’t quite as versatile live.
What influenced you early on to take this path in life as a producer?
I grew up playing violin, so I know a bit about playing instruments, classical music, and how things sound. Of course, that had an effect on my music, but I didn’t realize it at the time. I’m an Asian kid, so my parents made me play violin or piano. [laughs] It wasn’t like the kid who gets a guitar and forms a band; it was just part of growing up Asian. I would spend all of my allowance on records, and by high school I started to get obsessed with hip-hop. Seeing DJs playing high school parties and getting exposed to mixers and Technics [SL-]1200 turntables was fascinating to me. I started DJ'ing in high school. There is a lot of DJ culture in the Bay Area, so I was hanging out with DJ crews and I linked to it through a love of music. A lot of these guys [DJ Qbert, Mix Master Mike] were better DJs than me, but I had a clear idea of what I wanted to do. I focused on DJ-ing with drum machines, and my first was a Sequential TOM. My friend Rod [Sepand, "King Tech"] was using one when he and Sway [Calloway] were starting the Flynamic Force crew and had a [Roland TR-]808 cartridge for it. My beat-making began more in an electro vein, as that upbeat NY freestyle sound was big in the Bay Area at the time. From there, I moved towards making songs and records. It sounds like a natural arc, but it really wasn’t.
Did you have a tape machine to record mixes onto?
Yes, my first machine was a TEAC 3340, and I was obsessed with tape cutting. Mantronix was doing super high-end drum programming and sampling in the early to mid ‘80s. “Mega-Mix” on their debut, The Album, was remixed by the Diamond Two and had chopped-up, triplet repeats that I really liked. I moved to an 8-track TASCAM tape machine as I started to make music, but the reel-to-reel was how I learned to edit and chop tape. Everything I learned was trial and error, or from Keyboard and Mix magazines. It was similar to being on the West Coast and learning about hip-hop from watching New York movies like Beat Street. We were studying and learning a bit through osmosis.
Did you have any keyboards in those early days?
Honestly, the first things I had were drum machines and delays. I had a [DeltaLab] Effectron [ADM]1024 delay, a BOSS sample and hold unit [RSD-10] to trigger with the TOM, and that was about it. My first sampler was the Ensoniq Mirage, which had 2.2 seconds at full sample rate, but you could speed up or slow down recording into it to get more time. I would use these with turntables to make mixes at home and really learned how to sample. From there, I got the E-mu SP 1200 [sampling drum machine].
What was the story of mixing your first EP, Music to be Murdered By, and how did that inspire you to have your own studio for future projects?
There was a studio in Sebastopol, [California], that offered weekend hours at a cheaper rate. By this time, I had started making demos at home on my 8-track, so I went to a proper studio to recreate it. The swing just wasn’t there, and it didn’t even sound that much better. I went back to listen to my demos and thought, "Maybe it’s not as crystalline on the high end, but it sounds really close to what we recorded at the 2-inch tape studio." That’s when I decided to do it all at home and started to buy gear. Bear in mind, I had no money, but I knew I didn’t want to go to a studio anymore. If you’re paying $1000 a day, you’re watching the clock. Whereas at home you can take as much time as you want. It’s not wasting time, it’s getting into the right state of mind. That’s important to the creative process and to recording.
What were the pieces of gear that enabled you to get the Glue Factory up and running?
I had gotten an Akai MG14 rack-mount [12-track analog] unit which was hard to maintain but sounded great. By my good fortune, I had dinner with some guys from Davis, California, including Josh [Davis, aka DJ Shadow, Tape Op #11] and members of Blackalicious. They wanted to make records and liked mine, so we started making songs together on the Akai. This was right at the crest of when [Alesis] ADATs and [TASCAM] DA-88s were coming out, so Josh and I each got an ADAT to enable 16 tracks, along with an Alesis 1622 Mixer, as well as some JBL monitors. I had a couple of cheap-ass reverbs and then stepped it up and got a Lexicon PCM 80 and a Mackie 1604 mixer. I had a Shure SM58 for vocals – no real compressors or mic preamps – and set that up in my parents’ basement. Soon after, there was a contest in Keyboard magazine for an Alesis X2 mixer, and I bought it off of Craigslist from the local winner. That was what I used for the final mixes of DJ Shadow's Endtroducing….. and Blackalicious' Melodica.
I heard you spent time in New York making demos for Dr. Octagon [aka Kool Keith], even buying your [Moog] Memorymoog at Rogue Music?
Yes, that’s all true. I like New York and I spent a lot of time going back and forth. My friend Reggie worked for EMI and had a studio apartment by the Empire State Building with a little recording studio in the closet. It wasn’t like I was living hip-hop, but I was getting into the culture of New York and record buying. Music Factory, Downstairs Records, Downtown Records, going to see Lenny [Roberts] at Street Beats. People like Large Professor would be out shopping, but I didn’t know anyone. I dropped $1500 on the Moog, and that was a big deal. Reggie was skeptical, since he was more of an R&B guy and liked Rolands. I just liked the way the Moog sounded. Popular synths of the time, like the Roland D-50, felt pretty to me with sweet digital bells, but I wasn’t attracted to those tones. It didn’t end up on a record until Dr. Octagonecologyst a few years later. It wasn’t like I was clairvoyant; I just wanted it!
What was the workflow like for the Dr. Octagon sessions? Did DJ Qbert record his scratches on-site?
He and the Invisibl Skratch Piklz had been going for a while, but they didn’t really record at home, so he would come through the house to lay down the scratches. Keith [Thorton, Kool Keith] was staying at my house and would come down the hall to the studio. A vast majority of the drums and samples were produced with the Sequential Circuits Studio 440 [sampler/sequencer]. I bought the first [Digidesign] Sound Tools [pre-Pro Tools DAW] when it came out and used it to make 2-track edits. The gear I was using in this period was more transient and didn’t make it to the long run. I used an Audio-Technica [AT]4033 on Keith’s vocals and found it to be very sharp, so that had its time and didn’t stay forever. I probably had a mic pre at that time, as well as a cheap compressor, but I honestly don’t know what it was. None of this gear was good enough to stay forever.
Did you walk away from that record thinking it would have such an impact, or were you wishing you had a better compressor?
I didn’t know what to expect. Honestly, listening back, some of the mixes are a bit bright, or the bass doesn’t hit hard enough. But I’m cool with it. The guitar on “I’m Destructive” was played by Andy Andersen from Attitude Adjustment, and I only had a little Peavey amp in the studio. I’m not embarrassed by the tone – it sounds punk rock – but we just dialed it up and that was that. I didn’t know any better, and it sounds a little thin. But overall, I stand by the album. If you saw what I had to work with in the studio at the time, you’d be amazed. I’m a natural when it comes to sound and mixing. Ever since the beginning, I was kind of good at it. That’s a plus; I have that instinct.
That’s the most important thing. I spoke with Prince Paul [Tape Op #158] about the making of Handsome Boy Modeling School's So... How's Your Girl? That album sounds like a million bucks.
Things had changed. I bought a house with room for a studio, along with a Sound Workshop Otari Series 54 console. Sound Workshop was an English company purchased by Otari, and they were trying to make a console to compete with the SSL. Truth be told, it didn’t really sound like an SSL. I find it to be more in line with an API. It’s a full-sized 8-foot console, and I put it in without really doing sound treatment. That would be my advice to Tape Op readers: Don’t use sound treatment. That’s actually a terrible idea! [laughs] What I’ve learned is that what matters is how your ears are adjusted to any given room. I had started to spend more time in nice studios, and I couldn’t get the tone I wanted. My ears couldn’t adapt. My studio is just an untreated space, but I’ve adapted to it.
Is this the same room that you’re currently working out of?
Yes and no. We are in the age of recall, so having an analog console is a luxury that most of us can’t afford. I do a lot of movie scoring too, and recall is usually demanded. Working with the console can be an indulgence, even though I want to use it. I now have a few elaborate Pro Tools systems and I mix in the box, but in my main room I have around 40 channels of sends and returns going to analog gear. Instead of plug-ins, I’m running all analog back into the computer. I’ll use digital plug-ins for low frequency cuts and straight clean delays but, generally speaking, 100 times out of 100 I prefer analog. I use a Lexicon 300, which is a digital effects unit but it’s hardware. I’m probably running ten channels of analog sends per session – not on every track. I have certain EQs and compressors I use for certain artists. They stay in a ballpark setting, and sometimes I don’t even have to touch them. Bass almost always goes through a dbx 165 into a Moog [Three Band] Parametric Equalizer. For drums, I often bus them together and run them into a Focusrite Red 3 compressor. I just like the way it sounds, and it’s been my favorite for years. I believe a lot more in compression than EQ for shaping sounds.
By this point, were you able to get whatever gear you had in mind?
Josh [Davis] and I used to shop for records a lot, to the point where I cared more about how records were made and how they sound. After the Dr. Octagon album came out, I went to England and bought a rack of Audix AM6 compressors, which don’t sound like Neves but sound great. I bought a Neve 1084 EQ, and this was still when I had no money. The main thing I try to avoid spending money on is computers. I was running an Apple G3 for ten years after they came out. I recently upgraded my Mac minis to the M1 chip. I take my time. My sessions are probably a lot simpler than most. Mario Caldato Jr. [Tape Op #27] was sort of a mentor of mine, and we always talked about how less tracks are better. I believe that.
What can you recall about the making of the Deltron 3030 record?
I had known about the Hieroglyphics crew for years and finally worked with Del [Del the Funky Homosapien] on the songs “Magnetizing” and “The Projects (P Jays)” on Handsome Boy Modeling School. Domino [Damian Siguenza] is now one of my best friends, but back then we’d just see each other buying records. He suggested I check out Del’s Future Development album, where he debuted the Deltron character. I heard it and I thought, "Okay, I get this," and then we made the record. I met Eric San [aka Kid Koala] at Wetlands [NYC venue] in ‘97 when he had his first tape out, Scratchcratchratchatch. We became really close, and he did some scratching for Handsome Boy. After I finished the Deltron record, I went to Montreal for a week and we recorded his scratching for the album. Deltron 3030 was made right at the transition from ADAT to Pro Tools. By the time I made Bombay the Hard Way [Bollywood remixes] in ‘98, I had gotten a Pro Tools rig with an Apogee converter. For Deltron, I was using the ADAT converters through Lightpipe to Pro Tools. A lot of the arrangements were done in the Akai MPC2000. This was when time stretching functions weren’t so good, so if you listen to “Positive Contact” you’ll notice the measures vary in speed. It was all used as a means to get something done, and I’d rather something be a bit off in speed than pitch. Now you just tune, stretch, and shrink.
Are you digging for samples in real time to fit your vision?
How I make things is thematic, and that includes Dr. Octagon, Handsome Boy, and Deltron. We find the theme and we run to it, or run into it. By this point, I was fairly well-known at New York record stores like A-1, and guys like Jared and Rob would pick out things that I would like and hold them for me – records that were a bit more esoteric. I would be able to pick through stacks that were slightly curated. Looking through 1000 records to get 100, or 100 records to find 10. Not that I was employing curators, but I had friends that knew what I liked.
You were a key part of the self-titled Gorillaz album, even recording parts of it at Geejam Studios in Jamaica [Tape Op #88].
We were on tour in Europe with Handsome Boy Modeling School, and I got a call that Damon Albarn wanted to meet. I was getting obsessed with English music, from Blur and Oasis to Tricky and Portishead. I’d also produced Cornershop's When I Was Born for the 7th Time, so I was spending time in Europe and having a good bit of success. When I heard about the Gorillaz project, I headed straight from tour to Studio 13, meeting with Jamie Hewlett [British comic book artist and illustrator, and co-creator of Tank Girl] and learning more about it. I ended up sticking around to make the record there, and when it came time to do vocals Damon wanted to go to Jamaica. Geejam was like a wellness retreat without the yoga, so we brought all of the gear from England.
The engineers, Tom Girling and Jason Cox, mentioned you “loved your compression” in Sound On Sound on the making of “Clint Eastwood.” Could you foresee how big of a hit it would be?
I just work how I work, and I do like compression; the way it makes drums pop and makes the bass go a certain way. Lots of low cut, lots of compression, that’s me! No one walks away thinking they made a number one hit. And unless they’re Prince or Michael Jackson, they’re probably wrong! [laughter] Everything I’d done up to that time was a building block that lived in the world. There were no "duds." I did The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion's Acme; it wasn’t meant to be a number one record but it was cool. Everything lived its life. Do I sit down and say, "I’m going to make a number one.” Fuck, no! But if I’m working with some cool artists, and I’m able to bring Del into this Gorillaz thing, we’re going to make an impactful record. I knew it was cool, but no one in America got it at first. We went to Virgin [Records] and they wanted to print 50,000 copies. Deltron had already sold more than that, so that’s what we were up against. I produced a Kasabian album [West Ryder Pauper Lunatic Asylum] that was number one all over the world, and it wasn’t even released in America.
People forget how much rock music you’ve produced.
I came up with hip-hop and that’s the technique I started with, but I’m more of a producer. It’s funny, because people think of me as a rap producer, but I’ve barely produced that many rap albums. My bread and butter is rock and alternative music, and just a love of music. I don’t really connect with modern jazz, soul, or country, but other than that there’s an angle for me. I could even work on modern R&B, if the powers that be allowed me to twist it.
Judging by current trends it won’t be long before a country artist is looking for a Handsome Boy-style beat.
It’s funny, because the Dr. Octagon record [Dr. Octagonecologyst] was made as an ode to “anything goes.” At the time, the feeling was that the sun rises in the east with DJ Premier and sets in the west with Dr. Dre. We all use Pete Rock and Q-Tip style jazz and funk samples. There’s so much more music happening, and I wanted to make a record that taps into all of it: Hip-hop, rock, metal, and analog synth similar to Tangerine Dream. No limitations. It’s an interesting “coming out” record for me, because that’s my attitude about music in general.
I just discovered Lovage's Music to Make Love to Your Old Lady By featuring vocals by Jennifer Charles and Mike Patton [Tape Op #53]. What a fun album.
That’s my version of a French romance record. In 2014, I released Got a Girl’s I Love You but I Must Drive Over This Cliff with Mary Elizabeth Winstead on vocals. I’m into that smarmy French character, a la Brigitte Bardot and Serge Gainsbourg.
How has the process of sampling and getting clearances changed over the years?
People today understand what a sample is and what it does. More people are willing to clear things than back in the day when it was considered "stealing." The second Handsome Boy album [White People] had one sample, but since then I don’t sample as much anymore. I work with people to help with clearance, if it’s going to be a hassle. If an artist doesn’t want to clear it, it’s not going to happen. Now that people are more open to it, unless it’s something offensive, it’s free money for the original author. In the outlaw days, it felt like people were buying up catalogs to try and catch you. Now it’s a transaction. I probably stopped sampling too early, listening back to things that maybe didn’t sound as good without the sample. Maybe I should have been more willing to go down the clearance route and the headaches involved. On one hand, it opened me up to doing rock records and working with musicians. But I also might have had some gems that didn’t reach their final form as I got away from the sample. Sometimes creativity should win.
You recently composed the San Francisco theme for the ‘26 FIFA World Cup and have scored films like Booksmart. How do you like working in film and media?
I like art, and film brings an element to what I do that I don’t have control over. Scoring lets me explore the emotional side of things and connect with dialogue, visuals, and characters. I’ve scored a lot of movies and television now, and it’s different work than making records. I'm not coming up with the greatest melody or vocal performance of all time; I'm capturing the emotion and feel. But then I'll get a lot of critiques, sometimes from people who don’t speak the language of music, but it is rewarding to be able to work with visual media and help convey the emotions taking place on screen.
What gear in the Glue Factory are you leaning on these days? I saw you had a Nagra tape recorder?
I have a Nagra that I occasionally use on vocals. I don’t have a system, I have a bunch of systems, and whatever happens ends up in Pro Tools. I have these Philips tape delays with ten transformers in them, and I’m a big fan of tape in that respect. Running something through the Nagra gives me everything I’d want from a 2-inch machine. At any given time, I could be using a variety of different pad controllers, and I have a ton of drum machines. I also have a Rossum SP-1200 [percussion sampler], which is a newer version of the classic that Dave Rossum created with leftover parts from the original. I use them both. I also use a [Irijule] TheoryBoard keyboard controller. As a violin player, I’m more comfortable playing single notes than chords, and the TheoryBoard breaks that down in a helpful way. I learned Suzuki ear training style and am not big on music theory or making chord charts. When I build my music, it’s often through multiple melodies that meet each other to create chords.
What will be happening at the Glue Factory when you’re back from the Deltron tour?
The tour has been great. A lot of shows sold out immediately, which is great to see from something we did 25 years ago. There’s a new Deltron album coming out, as well as my first solo record. I’m in the middle of co-scoring Star Trek: Starfleet Academy and I have a song ["Return of the Thwacker (Night Cap Mix)"] in the film Him in theaters now. I’m really excited by my solo album; it’s something I’ve been working on for a few years now.
Are you singing on the solo album?
Oh, hell no! [laughter]
