John Croslin | TapeOp

The common: A guy enjoys fiddling with electronics and recording stuff, plays in some high- school bands and beyond, eventually ends up recording his stuff, then other people's music. The uncommon: The guy is John Croslin, his bands were The Rievers and Zeitgeist, and the other music he records has been made by Spoon, Guided By Voices, Pavement, Sixteen Deluxe, John Vanderslice, Old 97's, Waylon Jennings, John Doe, Kris Kristofferson, For Stars, Carlos, Beulah, Peglegasus, Subset, and many others. A couple of years ago John moved to San Francisco to work at Tiny Telephone. In June of 2001 he came back to Austin. It was a nice autumn night, we had a couple of pints (for future reference, he drinks Guinness), and talked about music and recording.

What took you to SF, and what brought you back to Austin?

Two years ago I was buying a studio here in Austin and the deal fell through. I had just been out in San Francisco to do John [Vanderslice]'s record. We hit it off and when I told him the deal was going south he invited me out to work at Tiny Telephone. I had also met my future wife, Angie, when I was out there and I wanted to be with her, too. It was hard for me 'cause I have a daughter here and I realized pretty early on that I didn't want to be living so far from her. I spent the last year trying to get back here and dragged Angie back with me. It's all worked out great so far. It's good to be back, I love Austin.

What do you bring to a session, what is your approach?

I like the band making the best record they can make but I also like very stylish records — records that turn your head. I think that it is more than great sounds and great performances. I think the producer has a lot to do with getting great performances but I'm not the kind of producer that has anything to do with writing. I write my own stuff and occasionally I have helped bands with a lyric or something, but as a rule I try and stay out of that. I like records that sound real distinctive and gutsy, that take chances. My view of that has changed over the years, but there are records I thought that of 20 years ago and I still think that of.

Which ones?

Bowie's Ziggy Stardust — most of The Beatles stuff, especially Revolver and Sgt. Pepper's — Sticky Fingers by The Rolling Stones. Those are some of the old ones. I like a lot of newer records, too.

Any you want to name?

Lately it's been Grandaddy — I've been totally diggin on them. I think mostly for the songwriting. Lucinda Williams, one of the best songwriters ever. Her Car Wheels on Gravel Road is a tremendous-sounding record.

Yeah, the sound of her voice with those songs is a really nice match.

Her voice had never been strong to me and it is totally strong on that record. You might even make a case that the songs on Lucinda Williams are better, but Car Wheels... you have to listen to it, you have to check out what she's doing.

Is there a format you prefer to record with?

Definitely analog. I've used workstations real often, but you really need to be careful with them. I don't know if you want to get into the debate. I like the example of Lynyrd Skynrd for some reason. If you listen to their records you hear a band playing together, they're playing great, and it totally invites you to come to the party and listen. I think a lot of the digital stuff — you can look at it and it's pretty but you don't have any emotional interaction with it. I think format has something to do with that and the way bands are being recorded has something to do with that. It really is more interesting to me if you hear people playing with each other — it's more like music.

I think there might be a generational learning curve. Perhaps it'll be the kids who grow up with the tools who really can make the most of them.

It's odd, I'm getting older and I'm always asking myself, "Is this just me getting older or are records really not as exciting as they used to be?" Then something will come along, like the Lucinda Williams record or the Grandaddy record, and I will get excited about it... so I know it's not just me. I think part of it, too, is that the manipulation of sound is taking the place of songwriting. That will definitely bug me. I am into songs. There are guys in that format who can write great, like Beck, and I really like that Gorillaz record, but a lot of times it sounds like, "Hey, check out this new sound we've tweezed."

I recently upgraded my home studio to a higher quality 8-track, analog set-up. Before I did I had a lot of people try to convince me to go digital and I noticed something odd about the language they used. It was often based around what could be done to sounds, rather than about the songs or music.

I think it remains to be seen what is going to be done with it. I'm going to get a MOTU system. I'm gonna be working on my own record. I hope that it will end up on analog but I know that a lot of it will be recorded at my house on a computer. There is no doubt about the convenience of it — and it's fun to play on computers. A pretty realized version of what can be done with the technology is what Fat Boy Slim is doing — just really fucked-up break-beat things, real wild juxtapositions. The Dust Brothers do that too, kind of outrageous sounds and outrageous rhythms. The machines are allowing them to do that, the machines are providing that power for this hyper-reality — and I'm way into that. But I would still much rather hear Marvin Gaye singing "What's Goin' On". If you have a choice, which one are you gonna pick? I kind of have that issue with it, but I think you're right that there's a lot to be exploited and there are people who will be virtuosos in ways we don't know.

Any gear you are particularly fond of?

Well, I'm fond of my gear. Most of the engineers I know have some stuff at their studio and they get to know it really well. I think that's the best way to go. After awhile you know what mic sounds good for certain situations. I believe that matters a lot more than what brand it is. Once you get to a certain [quality] level that's true, you need to have stuff that sounds good. Then after that it's how well you know it, how well you know what to do with it. My stuff: a couple of Neve preamp/EQs, 1066s — couple of 1176s — a Massenberg 8200 — couple of dbx 160XTs — an LA3A — Neumann U87 — SM7 — AT 4033 — SM57 — I loved using the U67 at Tiny Telephone, that is a beautiful mic. That's most of the stuff that I have.

Any messy studio stories you can share?

One of my favorite records that never came out — I won't mention any names. It came time to do the lead vocals and this guy was so drunk he literally could not stand up at the mic, he would just fall down. Two people held him up under each arm and I was thinking, "Oh my god, this is gonna suck." And we rolled the tape and kept it rolling because all the songs were in a row and he wasn't gonna last for long. He did all of them just fantastic.

Straight through, one take?

[laughs] Yes.

And it never came out?

It never came out, great record. He was a great guy, too. I've definitely had a lot of technical difficulties. At Tiny Telephone the Ampex had a tendency to go down. We'd get everything set up, record the first take, everybody'd be excited and in the control room for playback. I'd hit play and it would die. "Okay, see you tomorrow."

Is Tiny Telephone still around?

Oh yeah, it's a great studio. John Vanderslice made the wonderful choice of buying a Neve 5316, a beautiful-sounding desk. That is a fantastic studio, it sounds great, one of the best vibes I've ever been involved in.

Let's talk about the Spoon record Telephono. That is a great-sounding record and was done on an 8-track. How did you record that, what did you use?

Yeah, that was 8-track, the first record and the Soft Effects EP. That was a 3M 879 1" 8-track running at 30 ips, so it sounded pretty good.

Do you mind going into a little more detail?

The board was a Mackie 1604. We used a lot of my gear. Not many effects, more room sounds, and tape delay done with an Otari 5050.

Did you bounce tracks at all?

Yeah. We'd do 8 tracks, mix to DAT, bring it back on two tracks and add 6 more. 14 tracks total for most songs — no more than that. Usually we'd use 6 tracks for drums, 1 for guitar, 1 for bass. Drums were done with a 421 on the kick — inside, 57 snare, 57 on each tom. EV CS15s for overheads — they're not as nice as a 451 but they're like a mid-fi condenser. Though some of the overheads might have been done with 451s — I might be a little fuzzy on the details. Britt [Daniel]'s guitar always went through an Ampex MX 10 which is a little 4x2 tube mixer. It added a great tone to his transistor amp. That's one of the great pieces of gear I sort of stumbled across. Britt was into distortion — keyboards, acoustic, vocals — sometimes done naturally onto tape, sometimes added later. The studio was small but it had a great live sound. Even with close mic'ing there was a great presence.

Do you like the limits of 8-tracks?

I think limitations are a very creative thing. I had an 8-track for a long time and I think I did some real exciting stuff with it. It makes you think. When you have to leap over some obstacles sometimes it can be a creative thing.

I've found that it makes you really consider every sound you put to tape.

I agree. I've kind of come full circle with that 'cause I was very much obsessed with gear for a long time — I tried to have everything at my disposal. I never had a lot of opportunities to go in humongous studios and have everything to work with. Sometimes I did and I enjoyed it but it was almost like I had too many decisions to make. If you pare things down you're thinking more about the music.

What were the first recordings you did after doing the stuff with The Rievers? How did you get going?

Well, that's where I learned more about being in the studio. I'm not saying I learned how to record, 'cause I was definitely still learning. I did stuff with my high-school band on cassettes, you know, record the band stereo onto cassette, then overdub onto a second cassette with the first one playing. I was very into it. I learned by a lot of trial and especially error with The Rievers stuff. As I was in that band I realized that that was the part of the process I was most excited about.

The process of taping, or creating... are you including songwriting in that?

I find recording the most exciting. I love writing songs but I just get more of a buzz recording stuff. That's been the focus. I think now my focus is going to be more on songwriting. I'm getting close to being 40 and have done a lot of questioning about what I really want to do. One of the things that keeps coming up for me is I want to make another record. I want to do my own record while I still have some energy. Over the next year or so I'm gonna focus on that. I will be recording other bands too, but not as much.

Do you have certain criteria you look for when choosing work?

You know, I've always done just about anything that I could schedule where somebody wanted to work with me. A lot of people don't feel that that is a good tactic, but I've had the experience that just about everybody I've worked with had something great about what they do. I attribute that to the fact that people who are making music are doing something that they feel very passionate about and love, and this is the best of who people are. There have been a couple of exceptions to that. But as far as stuff that I would pursue, where I would approach a band and say, "I would love to record you guys", I just look for great songs, really good vocals — it's what I'm interested in these days. I have indie roots so a lot of times I wasn't as concerned about having a great singer but as I'm getting older I'm finding that more and more appealing.

So how did your indie roots take the Hootie and the Blowfish connection?

[laughs] It was strange.

Did you know about that before it happened?

No, no. It had already come out and Britt saw it on the internet. He called and said, "Hey, did you write a song called 'Almost Home'? It's on the Hootie and the Blowfish page and evidently they recorded it." So I called my publishing company and found out that they had covered it. And, you know, my indie roots were not offended in the least. I think those guys are great. Great singing, obviously, and some very good songs, and I was just absolutely pleased and flattered that they liked my songs. They've been totally great to me. They are definitely not indie but they also totally paid their dues. They were playing for years before they hit, they love it — they just love playing music. That's why they're still doing it and why they'll continue to do it. I respect that.

Any other producers/engineers you really dig?

A lot of 'em, yeah. I love Daniel Lanois [ Tape Op #37 & #127 ] and Brian Eno [ #85 ], both. Originally Eno but I think Lanois has inherited that spirit. Definitely a different style to his stuff but I think they're both so heartfelt and otherworldly. I just listened to "Once In a Lifetime" by The Talking Heads and what an amazing sonic statement. It's a great song and a great mood, but Eno made that mood what it is.

What I notice about Lanois is you can hear him on a lot of his recordings.

There are things he's done that I don't really love, but 9 times out of 10 I think he's awesome. [U2s] Achtung, Baby is a brilliant record, that Neville Brothers Yellow Moon — and I remember hearing that Martha and the Muffins record, probably in the late '70s, and thinking that it sounded better than anything I'd heard in a long time. He had something goin' on even back then. I think Bill Bottrill is amazing, a real performance guy. He's great at capturing... very pure. It's all about arrangement and performance. He's brilliant.