Danielson Famile: Family life

The Danielson Famile and its visionary leader, Daniel Smith, have been creating some of the most unique music to come out of New Jersey in the past ten years. Their songs are a veritable melting pot of the finest 20th century pop music writers — Frankie Valli, Bob Dylan and the Violent Femmes put in an oven with the heat on high. Daniel's unflagging energy level often borders on the violent but it's always joyful, sincere and purposeful. They are lauded all over the world, from Rolling Stone Magazine to Simpsons creator Matt Groening and National Public Radio's All Things Considered. The attention is well deserved. The Famile is made up of sisters Megan and Rachel, brothers David and Andrew, Daniel's wife Elin and the only non-blood relations of the family, Chris and Melissa Palladino. We sat down with head honcho Daniel at their newly refurbished home studio in New Jersey. He revealed details about everything from working with legends like Kramer and Steve Albini [ Tape Op #87 ], to the logistical nightmares of bringing the entire family entourage to All Tomorrow's Parties in the UK.

We're here in the new studio [N. J. Rec. Rm.] so maybe you want to tell us about that first. What inspired you to build your own studio?

Well, this is actually the same room where we did A Prayer for Every Hour in '94 on just a 4-track. It's the same room we've always practiced and prepared in and actually done some other tracking for some other albums. Back then it was a matter of moving boxes out of the way and cleaning the room before we would set up for a practice. And then ask my mom to not sew upstairs while we were trying to do some quiet vocals. There was just junk everywhere. I'd been doing recording on that [Tascam] 388 over the past couple of years. You have to try and get everybody to be quiet and then when I got a little bit nicer microphones you could still hear the cars driving by and all that stuff.

What did you record on the 388?

A third of each Tri-Danielson!!! record, the one that was entitled Bro. Danielson, so the kind of more down home sound was done on the 388.

Did you mix it with the built-in mixer?

Yeah. [laughing] Just straight to DAT. I've been wanting to get a more controlled environment and was looking around at places in the area. We all grew up in this house, all the kids are moved out now and so my parents gave me this side of the house. We ripped the ceilings out and put in all new ductwork and put two layers of 5/8'' sheet rock in the ceiling so my mom can actually sew upstairs and we can record down here. There's a faint vibration of the sewing machine but it's okay. I love it because it's the same place where we've written everything and, like I said, recorded some stuff. So now I'm writing and getting ready to do two new Danielson full lengths and an EP. And we have our own record label [Sounds Familyre] so we're doing all kinds of other projects as well.

Do you think maybe in twenty years you'll still be in this room?

I actually hope to build a building in the side yard over here. I already have it planned out. We're going to dig down and have these underground bunkers two stories down so that from the outside it looks like a humble little one floor but it will go down a couple of floors unless we hit water. [laughing]

You said you're a carpenter. Did you build this studio on your own?

Pretty much. My dad and my brother Dave helped a lot putting up the ceiling.

Did you have any models in mind or acoustic treatments?

No, we just tried to keep from hearing the sewing machine upstairs, that was the first step. This floor was really poorly built. It was really squeaky. That's another reason why I ripped the ceiling out. I glued every single rafter and then screwed the floor down upstairs and I insulated it like mad.

But it still has a nice live sound?

Yeah, it sounds so much better than it did before. The biggest thing was taking all the metal ductwork out of the ceiling. I replaced it with this sort of insulated ductwork, the coil stuff. There's a lot of light, a good view. It's half underground so it's pretty soundproof from outside, except for the windows, which I found out how to build boxes for. It's quiet here, there's hardly any traffic. Birds are the biggest problem and they're not such a problem, anyway. There's birds on all sorts of Danielson recordings. Actually this was another room, the control room, and we took out this portion and put in a wall here and put in a door and a window.

Did you choose analog because of preference or because of price? Are you planning on putting any computers in your setup at all?

I have a computer in there. I have the 16-track 1", the [Tascam] MS-16 and I have the Pro Tools [Digi] 001 together. I'm trying to make them become friends, that's the battle right now. We just started here with the 16-track, that's a new member of the family. And I'm slowly acquiring things. I'm getting a Soundcraft board from Rafter Roberts in San Diego, a 16-channel. I'll use that to track as much as I can onto the reel- to-reel. Then the thing I'm extremely nervous about is transferring that. The 001 converters are pretty weak. I've had people recommend a rack of eight converters you can get, but the thing is I still only have eight good converters and eight not so good ones.

Any good preamps?

No, the Soundcraft board I'm getting I figure would be the cheapest way to get 16 pretty decent preamps. And just use that for tracking. I'm still gathering. It's a slow and steady process.

Are you going to mix on Pro Tools?

That's another thing. I've mixed a lot on Pro Tools 'cause usually I would track to the 388 and then dump that in and then add tracks. The albums I've been working on the past year or two were done that way. The 388 is a great thing. I'm still unsure if I want to run stuff back out through the board and mix that way, which some people like. I read all these theories and then just do what I like. I'm a little suspicious of this bounce to disc thing. I can't help but think it gets flat.

<<<< Tell me what kind of equipment you have.

We have a fairly soundproof control room, good enough, that's for sure. I'm not a big equipment guy. My goal is to have a set of equipment that I don't have to think about. I'm excited to get the Soundcraft board. Right now I'm borrowing this Mackie, but with the Soundcraft I'm going to feel a lot better. Like I said, I really do like Pro Tools, I really like the control it gives. I don't have a lot of equipment stories because I'm still in the building process. I don't really have any fun microphones or anything. I have the [SM] 57s and I have this Rode NT1000.

A lot of your records are recorded on 2".

[Tell another Joke at the 'Ol] Choppin' Block with Kramer was recorded on 2" 24 and mixed in analog. Straight to DAT. That was in 1997 when mixing to DAT was the standard. And then the next two records, part of the concept was this three in the one, there were three lineups of Danielson and each line up was recorded in different locations. Bro. Danielson was recorded on the 388 here; Daniel Sunship was recorded in this big old church with a pipe organ. They ran wires across this small field to the studio on the second floor. It's pretty amazing with this giant cable going across. And then they would record in there to a 16-track 1".

Who was engineering that one?

It was my friend Adam Omeljaniuk and we've been friends for a long time. He did sound for the Knitting Factory. He and Kyle Kutchler, they engineered it. And then when it came to mix there we had trouble with the mixing board and it was just a disaster. Everything was hooked up wrong. Everything was tracked onto tape and it sounded great and then it was just this nightmare. I ran out of money and we kept on going down there and mixing and we'd take it back here and it just sounded completely different. It was really disheartening. I actually called Kramer and he said bring the stuff up and we'll mix it here and he did it for free, pretty much. It was like $100 or something. It was really amazing that he did that. He and I mixed them at this small little home studio in New York City. And the third tier was with the full family and Kramer came down to the studio in Springfield, PA which is 20 minutes from here and that was 2" 24-track. Mixed it there to DAT.

So each one was a different experience.

Yeah, that was kind of the idea. I had no idea what it was going to be like. Especially since they're all up against each other, it's 1-2-3, 1-2-3. So the mastering job was not an easy one. Alan Douches at West West Side. He did Chopping Block and both Tri- Danielsons!!!. He's amazing. He did a great job. And then Fetch the Compass Kids was done with Steve Albini, which was actually back in Springfield. We flew him out here 'cause it was cheaper to bring him out here than the whole family to go out there to Chicago. So we went back to that studio and again it was a disaster. [laughing] The machine, we were halfway done, we did all this tracking for a couple of days and it sounded amazing, and then there was this warble that had developed and we didn't know if it was on the tape or on the playback. So I was pretty panicky. It ended up just being on the playback so we just took the tape to another studio. Actually, we had 3M guys come in and all that and nobody was able to fix it. I felt sort of responsible 'cause it was a cheap studio and it worked before. So we ended up just stopping. We certainly couldn't mix it there, anyway. We decided just to wait. Chris and I went out to Electrical Audio and I tracked my vocals and we mixed it there. In the big room.

You mentioned before that Albini and Kramer were your heroes.

My two heroes and I've worked with them both!

You think they are different styles?

Oh yeah, I think they are. Left and Right. [laughing] Just in terms of two opposite ends. Maybe more just in philosophy. I love them both, I guess I just like extremes, in general. I really appreciate the studio as another instrument, the Phil Spector thing. I really see Kramer as following that idea especially the mixing process. Really kind of mutilating and taking things out and just using that as another part of the creative process. And Steve just kind of capturing what's in the room.

For Fetch the Compass Kids there were a lot of intricate changes. How would you go about recording that? Was it mostly live?

Yeah, we record almost everything live. Not the vocals. We do both the drum kit and the percussion kit, my acoustic guitar electrified through an SVT mic'ed and then Chris plays the Farfisa through that bass cabinet and then Megan plays glockenspiel and that's all done live. And then there's violin and vocals and little things here and there are overdubbed.

Does everyone read music or have charts?

Kind of homemade notes and charts. Not really charts, just a lot of numbers.

You guys seems to be getting tighter and tighter as each record comes along.

I love doing as much live as possible, recording as much live as possible, especially the foundation — the drums, the keyboards and the guitars — I think the energy really carries. We all record best that way — when we speed up and slow down not on purpose, at least we do it all together.

Do you ever do your vocals live?

No. I'd like to try it. Because I play acoustic guitar it's tricky, especially when we do it as a band I'm kind of giving orders over the vocal mics, "Here it comes!" — that sort of stuff.

How do you rally the troops when you are recording?

No, I think it's just the usual getting over the nerves. And that's why I'm excited to be here, there's not going to be that kind of pressure, you can't get more familiar than this. It's always a little awkward of course just recording but I think everyone is pretty good at just focusing.

Are you still nervous in the studio?

Well, that last recording session I was nervous because of all those technical problems.

When Steve recorded Compass Kids did he do a lot of room mic'ing or close mic'ing?

Both. We were in this room in Pennsylvania and it's a nice decent-sized room with wood floors, I think. The drums were side by side, mics were everywhere. Between a drum kit and a percussion kit there were probably 15 mics, maybe even more. And everything else was close mic'ed. I did my lead vocals at Electrical Audio in the main room. I wanted to try that thing where the louder you sing the more mics in the room turn on. As the vocal gets louder the gates on more and more mics open up. I think there were three mics, a close one, a far away one and another in the middle. I really wanted to do that because when I sing falsetto I sing real quiet, real up front and I wanted that dry. And then when I yell I want it to open up and kind of really mix that together. It turned out fantastic, I was really happy with that.

Is there anything that you have learned while working with Kramer and Albini that you're going to take to this studio here?

Yeah, absolutely. I certainly have learned so much from watching them both. It's not the sort of thing where I take things and apply them — it's just "do it". Kramer's approach to mixing is very chaotic and just on the fly. He's just pushing buttons and turning knobs and just doing his stuff. I don't even know if it's planned or not. So each time it's just a totally different mix. So that's something that was really wonderful and doesn't always work. If it's not the thing you had worked out in your mind it's tough to let go of it. But that's not necessarily a bad thing either.

You said that you were going to have other bands in here. Is that something you want to do — engineer and produce?

Right now we're finishing up a record by Sufjan Stevens and he's on our label. We're going to mix within the week and put that out. Last week we were tracking his stuff. There's a Secretly Canadian artist June Panic — he's going to come here in April. We're going to do another of our dad's albums, we're going to do that down here in February. And then we're starting a Bro. Danielson full-length and EP, which I'm going to start within the week or so.

How involved is the rest of the family with the producing, arranging?

In the past I would write the song on an acoustic guitar and present it to the family. On this last record the keyboard player and I, Chris Palladino, collaborated quite a bit, which is really exciting. Really opened things up in a lot of ways. Whether it was myself writing or he and I, we would still present it to the family and try not to say too much and see what people came up with. Certainly when we're writing we're thinking about drums and arrangements and about instruments. To me arranging is a big part of the songwriting. I try to add only what is absolutely necessary for a song and maybe only remove one thing so it's not quite as much as it needs. It's one step back from what probably is required for the song to be successful. [laughing] And hopefully to me it still retains sort of a bare quality with that idea.

Can you give an example of what you mean?

Maybe with vocals, for instance, there really should be a full vocal backup part to really fill it up. We'll just have one girl singing that instead to leave the listener room to sing along. I don't know. I just love awkwardness, too. To keep that in the mix. It makes me think about the power of the lone instrument. I love the power of that. When it's a song that works in that way I really prefer to keep it at that. Of course you can add some back up instruments if you'd like, but I prefer if it doesn't need it.

There is still a lot of interesting instrumentation on the albums though.

There is. Most of the instrumentation comes out of what they were playing in grade school. It adds up that way just by default. Although Megan doesn't play glockenspiel on every part, that's kind of what I'm talking about. Just when there is a purpose, a real purpose. Not just a good idea but only when something is really necessary that's when she comes in.

It sounds like sort of a marching band.

Both drummers were marching band captains in high school. Megan played bells and Rachel played flute. Chris actually never played an instrument until he joined the band. He's just good at anything he does. Actually his grandmom used to played organ for silent movies so there was a real connection there.

Your influences are more indie and punk rock, does that influence how you want to produce your records?

I really appreciate stuff that comes out with new directions, new ideas. These bands that come along, they're not getting a lot of attention at the time but they are going to pave the way for a whole new direction musically. That excites me. And what also excites me is just the songwriting process. That tends to be very traditional. Bob Dylan still is to me the most important person in rock and roll history, in my opinion. Even though his song structures generally aren't so revolutionary necessarily he's an amazing songwriter and lyric writer. In eighth grade when I heard Sonic Youth, that just blew everything out of the water of anything I thought about music. So that was a pretty exciting, landmark beginning. I grew up listening to Revolver, something that just sounded so strange to me and exciting. And Bob Dylan. I remember thinking some of The Beatles' records were just so strange.

What did you play in high school?

I just played guitar. I took one year of guitar lessons and then I quit because I didn't want to learn too much. I'm so happy I was into music at that point to know 'don't learn too much'. Right when I started to learn the scales, got the chords down and quit.

Tell me about some of these toys you have.

That's a toy piano that was on Compass Kids. That Farfisa, that's the Fast Five that we play, that's an amazing sounding Farfisa. We usually don't have bass guitar. Usually the Farfisa does the bass for us. We've been doing a little bit of bass guitar overdubs recently. Generally the bass comes from the Fast Five. Like I said we're not big equipment people. This is a new organ that my cousin gave me which sounds amazing. It's got this really cool thing where you can play percussion on it with your feet. Chris has been messing with that. You can play percussion and notes on it at the same time. This is a little Sears Silvertone [amp] that we're borrowing. I've resurrected my Danelectro hollow body there. The two of them sound great together for when I go electric. Generally I just play my acoustic guitar through that (Ampeg) SVT. It gives it a very manufactured electric guitar but very percussive sound.

Most of your recordings you play through that cabinet?

I do both. I play live through the cabinet mic'ed and then I'll overdub everything with a mic'ed acoustic so everything is doubled. And then they are mixed together to get this real crisp acoustic but fat sound. I play my acoustic through this amazing Fishman pick up that has changed the sound tremendously. And then I go through this horrible pedal called Acoustic Guitar pedal. Apparently it's made to make electric guitars sound like acoustic guitars. It's the worst thing but for an acoustic guitar to go through it sounds amazing because it's so fat. It has a gain on it. So I go through that and then into the SVT and also a Boss Metal Zone pedal. So when I distort it with the Metal Zone it sounds really tough. And this thing, this is the first amplifier we ever had, a SongTech Jr. Studio. I bought this on the Home Shopping Network in seventh grade. You can sing through this thing and it has it's own echo on it, battery powered. I have to resurrect that thing.

Do you guys still tour together as a family?

It's really rare. We played All Tomorrow's Parties in England this past year when Shellac curated that. That was amazing, but we had a entourage. My parents came, we have babies now, babysitters, it was this huge ordeal. Unfortunately it kind of depends on that budget. We're doing All Tomorrow's Parties in L.A. in June, Matt Groening from the Simpsons is curating that one. He invited us to come. ATP is this musical festival put on by this guy in England who picks a curator each year.

Ever had the ping pong table out?

That's for Saturday break. Actually when we recorded at Kramer's we brought a trampoline with us. My brothers brought the trampoline to the studio, we set it out front in his yard. Take a break from recording and go out and take a jump on that!