So, how did you get into recording?
I had two stereo, reel-to-reel tape machines, 1/4". This was probably around 1966 or so — while I was still in the Merry-Go-Round. I'd set them up side by side, adjacent to each other, and I'd run the tape from the supply reel on one machine to the take-up reel on the other machine. I ran it through the heads of both machines, but what I did was twist the tape in between the first machine and the second.
Ah, yes, so you then were recording simultaneously on both sides of the tape.
Right. Just flip the tape and you've got four channels.
So how did that system work out?
Oh it worked just great! Yeah, it worked fine. Until the machines got moved.
Because if you moved one of the machines even a little bit...
Yeah, that was it. Any tapes you'd recorded would then be out of sync. But while they were in place it worked just great.
Did you record demos with that setup?
I guess I did. I don't think I recorded anything of note on it. Mainly it was just me getting experience with tape machines and overdubbing. And I had four tracks before anyone else on the block!
But when you were officially recording with the Merry-Go-Round, you guys were generally at A&M studios?
Oh, we recorded everywhere. All over town. But, yes, primarily at A&M.
You probably picked up a lot from all those sessions...
Absolutely. I learned how to engineer by being in the studio and watching. So when it came time to do it myself, I was familiar with how things worked. But being in the studio was a wonderful thing, watching the wheels go round and round, the big speakers...
At some point, though, you started buying your own recording gear.
Yeah, well that was after the Merry-Go-Round broke up. I had been kept on at A&M to record a solo album. Actually, it was just bits of leftover stuff, things from the Merry-Go-Round and some things I had done by myself in the studio. But it was all kind of assembled and called an album. Anyway, the album was finished and the label just kind of stuck it on a shelf at first, they didn't release it. So I started buying my own gear so I could record at home. This was around 1969. I bought an old Ampex 4-track machine, a huge washing machine-type thing.
Do you remember what model it was?
It was an Ampex 300 with, I think, 351 electronics. It was strange, a custom job. The electronics were down below rather than on top, where they usually were. And it had some custom cabinet. But it was old. I mean, it was ancient even then! Like I said, it looked like a washing machine.
All tube...
Oh, yes. But it was a frustrating machine, I remember, because you couldn't record on adjacent tracks. Like, if I wanted to transfer track 1 to 2, forget it. You couldn't do that. You had to go from 1 to 3, so I had to plan out how to record everything so I could make sure I got it all on the tape. It required a lot of pre-thought.
So did you sketch out exactly what you were going to do on each track and when?
Well, what it meant was that I had to demo everything to see where it would go. Then I'd get serious and do it for real.
What other gear were you using besides the Ampex?
I had two little Shure mic mixers. Actually, they're still right here in my rack! I've kept them. They still work. They're Shure M67 mixers — real basic things.
I think they were originally made for news reporters and journalists to use while in the field.
Oh yeah, real rudimentary things. But they've got knobs and a meter and if you want to go stereo you've got two of them. Of course, at that time I wasn't doing any real stereo stuff, but we did simulate some stereo during mixdown.
Were you using any compressors or limiters at this time?
No, I had none of that stuff. Really, on that first album, all I had was the Ampex, the little Shure mixers and three microphones.
What mics were you using?
I had two RE-15s and one RE-16, — Electro-Voice mics. That's all the microphones I used on that first album to record the instruments. When it came time to record vocals, I believe it was Keith [Olsen] who suggested I rent a Neumann, which is what I did. I later bought two of them, but for that first album I just rented one, a U-87.
Wow, I didn't realize that! And what a mismatch in gear — this expensive Neumann U-87 into a cheap little Shure M67 mixer...
Yeah, but if you open those things, you know that old technology. It's got big resistors, big capacitors. I mean, the components were big! You know, now it's all on a little chip. But those things had a big circuit card with real components soldered on. But, sometimes I would go right into the tape machine, bypass the mixer altogether and use the machine as a mixer.
Did you do that a lot?
Yeah, I did. I'd just run the Neumann right into the tape machine. But only the vocals were recorded with the Neumann. Everything else was recorded with the Electro-Voices, the dynamics. I still have them too. Well, one of them walked out the door, but I have the other two.
But all the instruments were recorded with a combination of those three Electro-Voice mics? I've always wondered how you were recording drums, because I've always loved the sound you got.
Well, it was a pretty basic setup. I basically had two overheads, one left and one right. Those sort of took care of the high hat, crash, ride, toms. Then I put the third mic on the kick drum. The snare sort of came through as leakage. It was pretty much a jazz setup.
So, no mic dedicated to the snare?
Nope, but it came through all right. It was all a matter of mic placement. I would rehearse the drums, record a take, listen to it, and make adjustments. "Oh, I got too much toms that time." So I'd move the mics around until I had a good balance between everything. Then it all went down to one track, mono.
What kind of drums were you using at the time?
Slingerlands and Zildjians.
How about the piano you were using? How did you record that?
It was a Gulbransen upright, which I still have. Pop open the lid, stick a mic inside. Simple as that.
I think I've seen photos of you using the RE-16 to record it.
That's probably right. I just angled it down inside.
But no compression.
Nope. It was all real basic. I just tried to get as much level on the tape as I could.
What about guitars?
I had the Gibson 335 and a Fender Twin Reverb amp. My acoustic was a Martin D28. And my bass was a [Fender] Precision.
That was all you had on the first album?
Yeah.
I've seen later photos where it looks like you were building up quite a collection.
Yeah, I went through a lot of them eventually.
Did you record any of your guitars direct? Sometimes it sounds a little like it, but it's hard to tell.
It's hard for me to remember. I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was all through an amp, but I can't be positive. I think I always used an amp. I may have recorded the bass direct some, but I can't be certain about that either. It was so long ago. For as long as I can remember I've recorded bass direct, but I'm trying to remember if I did back then. I just can't be sure.
What were you using for monitors at the time?
Well, for the first record I put my own monitors together. I just went out to the electronics store and picked up some Jensen speakers, bought some empty cabinets and put them together. Wired up some crossovers and capacitors. Just cheap stuff. I actually had four speakers on the wall, one for each track! [laughs]